I started thinking about the history of republican dirty tricks, and wondering how many of the insane Hillary supporters who JUST cropped up on this board, (who are now telling us four years of McCain won't be so bad) and how many of the rabid Obama supporters (the ones who insist that sexism doesn't exist and that misogyny had no role in Hillary's defeat) are right wing Republicans. They probably have a yahoogroup called republican trolls on salon or something where they are plotting how to keep us at each other's throats.

Some of their posts are beyond belief! Women shouldn't vote because they're too emotional???? Bros not hos isn't really an example of sexism because it was on a site that was selling other products that were tasteless and bigoted but not related to women???? That no sexism exists?

The idea that women who are pushing for women's rights are "selfish" ????? (They told that to those pushing for African American voting rights and civil rights, to calm down, slow down, their turn would come.....)

Women's rights are human rights, just as rights for people of color are human rights. It's about every single individual having the same inalienable rights guaranteed under our constitution. How can you call people struggling against oppression "selfish?"

These ideas are right wing fundamentalist republican ideas and have no place among progressive folk.

And out in the real world, feminists have been supporting Obama all along, and feminists who were supporting Hillary are pledging their support to Obama (one example is the recent letter from Emily's list). So, let's not worry too much about the trolls on this board.

AKA Smith, I thought your post on the code words to keep women down was stupendous. You can't get more clear (shrill and strident) than that. Bravo.

I also have spent many years organizing against domestic and sexual violence. I agree with you that the root cause of rape is misogyny and that rape is about power, control, and malice, and that it is a tool that is used by men (as a class) to keep women (as a class) down. It's important to remember that rape is ALSO used by people in power to break down the spirit, humiliate and oppress people they are persecuting. It's not just used by men against women. When men are raped (mostly by other men but occasionally by women), it is in places where they are being oppressed and attacked -- prison, concentration camps,...when they are hostages, children, disabled, etc. Rape/sexual violence is always wrong. I don't think we disagree about this, but I thought it was a point that needed emphasis.

Back to the election,

Bottom line, we cannot survive McCain winning the election. Look at Iraq, look at Katrina, look in your own communities at the homeless, think about civil rights for women, people of color, immigrants, lesbians, gay men...in fact, any person who is not rich, white, male and willing to adhere to the party line. Think about four more years of the destruction of the environment (global warming is a myth?), evolution being taught in schools, hate crimes, more guns, more violence, and less jobs, even higher gas prices, and NO HEALTH INSURANCE.

Think about the Supreme Court (AND other federal court appointees)..think about the erosion of our civil rights. It can't go on.......I'm desperate.

I can't sacrifice those people who will die if John McCain is elected.....I am still angry at those who were too pure to vote for Al Gore and John Kerry and I hold them responsible for the Bush/Cheney atrocities.

I will be working for Obama and I fervently hope that every other feminist will be right there with me. This does not mean that we feminists should not simultaneously demand rights for women, as well as justice for ALL people. After all, we've always been good at multi-tasking.

Susan McGee

Paglia has certainly learned how to be vicious in a highly articulate way, but that doesn't disguise how disgusting her views are.

She, like those to CLAIM to be for women's rights, cannot separate Bill from Hillary Clinton. What IF the inveterate seducer is a misogynist? SHE isn't the seducer. HE is.

Paglia cannot allow Sen. Clinton to be an autonomous person in her own right. That's the real misogyny.

Susan McGee

Phyliss Lyon and Del Martin have been committed to each other for decades.

In the non-monogamous 70s, they were deried as "monogs" by the progressive left.

They wrote one of the first books that allowed lesbians to think of themselves as real, valuable human beings who were not sick, disgusting, perverted, or doomed. (Lesbian/Woman).

Del Martin also wrote a ground breaking book Battered Wives that was one of the first books to talk about domestic violence and how terrible it was for women (in the 1970s, no one believed the domestic violence really existed outside of a few psychopathic couples).

They've fought the good fight, they've been role models for countless lesbians.

After their marriage was invalidated, they kept fighting.

They deserve every joy and every moment of vindication.

Venceremos! Maybe there's hope for this country after all!

Susan