And, in response to others, yes I know it wasn't Sen. Kennedy who made the comment about Fatal Attractions.....

re: campaign sexism, salon sexism..

Celia, there has been little blatant sexism in the organized Obama campaign (see below)

I think it's not just the Salon posters, there is a percentage of left wing progressive men who are horribly sexist, and don't even acknowledge sexism as an issue. Then there are those who acknowledge it, but don't really "get it."

I'm unhappy with Gloria Steinem and Robin Morgan....because unfortunately their insights have been lost on the percentage of the left because they don't quite "get it". They don't get why it's not okay to compare racism with sexism. If they had just acknowledged racism, and THEN gone on to expose the blatant sexism directed against Sen. Clinton -- by a wide variety of her opponents -- it would have done more good.

Just as former President Clinton and Sen. Clinton have damaged the campaigns because of not quite getting it about racism.

In the Obama campaign, there has been silence about sexism, which disturbs me, given the tendency of the left to make believe it doesn't exist.

I also see a real deep scorn for older women, and it's okay if it's scorn for older white women, right? -- I do totally understand why for some African Americans the chance to see a Black person in the WHITE House is just a monumental thing, and I totally understand for some women (of all colors) there is a deep seated need to see a woman finally in the top job.

I've said consistently that I will vote for the democrat who is nominated..I wouldn't have said that if Maggie Thatcher or Clarence Thomas had been running.....

I'm very angry at those Clinton supporters who won't vote for Obama and I'm very angry at those Obama supporters who won't vote for Clinton.

It's poor people, women, people of color, and every other disadvantaged person in this country and the environment that will be hurt if Mr. McCain is elected.

Susan McGee

I agree with 99% of what you said...but in the spirit of dialogue...as a white woman, I will be delighted when Senator Obama is President Obama (there, a hopeful statement, reflecting my view that the democratic primary is essentially over, and my most deep hope that John McCain will be defeated).

I can remember how I felt about President Mandela who in many ways fulfilled so many of my hopes in the way he handled the defeat of the white racists. I was absolutely delighted and heartened and ecstatic when he became President of South Africa.

But it is just not the same as the visceral deep down feeling that comes from experiencing decades of oppression.and then seeing someone who was invisible and downtrodden be the leader of the country...perhaps the passion of old women comes from being alive in 1968 (I'm doing this from memory) when the NY Times still had "Help wanted - Male" and "Help - wanted Female" and what was in the help wanted female section was secretaries, domestic help, elementary school teachers. Postman, policeman, garbage man, etc. Maybe it's the idea that we're getting old and this may be our last chance. So, the solution is to live a long time because the day of a woman president will be here later.

I hear from my African American friends that it is PARTICULARLY older people who just can't believe that a Black man might actually get elected President...it strikes such a deep seated chord with them because of the vicious oppression they've endured.

The point I'm making is that it's not quite the same for allies of the oppressed as it is for the oppressed. Championing those who have been beaten is not the same as being beaten yourself because of your race or gender.

Anyway, sorry to ramble, but I DON'T want women of color to be invisible, and I think they've (once again) been pressured to "choose" being non-white or non-male, and that's disgusting.

Unlike many other feminists who've posted on this board, most feminists I know are supporting Senator Obama. Certainly among the radical feminist left, white and NON-white, it makes you suspect if you're voting for Clinton. I think some of that is internalized sexism, some of it is anti-racist activism...but I also think that a lot of it is people who are uncomfortable with electoral politics and being pragmatic.

Celia, I am impressed with Senator Obama, and would love to become extremely enthusiastic about him. I respect the way he's tried to keep focused on change and tried to avoid mudslinging, which is why I'd LOVE to hear him talk about sexism explicitly.

I need all the energy I can get for the campaign, since I will be campaigning for him.

I'd like to see Senator Clinton take the high road in the campaign because I admire her in many ways,(she sure has guts) and I'd like not to be disappointed in her. But my major feeling is that she must act in ways that promote a Dem victory in November -- I am far more invested in that than I am in any candidate.

I think she'd make a far better Supreme Court judge than she'd make Vice-President, so perhaps she could make that deal.

My best guess is that she will not be able to do anything with the Michigan and Florida situation, and that's when she will understand that she will not get the nomination.

As for McCain, he has a history of abusive comments towards women, as well as being someone who will replicate George Bush's policies.

Susan (who is appreciating the opportunity for dialogue)