Letters posted here are associated with the following Salon Premium Member:

rrheard

Published Letters: 2881

Friday, January 2, 2009 08:28 AM

It's the Western Way . . . when indiginous peoples

have land or resources that the West wants, it simply takes them. The playbook used is always the same. Labor puts a more "humane" spin on it than Likud (exactly analogou to Dems vs. GOP here) but the perception of the indiginous peoples,(undifferentiated non-whites of whatever ethnicity), their rights, and the West's actions towards them is always the same--they are less than us and/or subhuman. We conquer, annex, and/or disperse them, settle their lands, and engage in unspeakable brutality to maintain settled lands until such time as "nationhood" is a legal fait accompli. There are a few voices in the Israeli press that see the Palestinians for what they are, the marginalized, brutalized, landless, Jews of the 30-40's. Begin, Sharon et al were terrorists and propogandists by admission and definition. But history lionizes rather than demonizes them for their means because people were propogandized to believe the ends were both "ordained by God and just" (the preferred Western paradigm). I certainly don't hate the idea of religion, but I certainly hate the actions religious people allow their beliefs to justify. I believe religious passivity in the face of grave injustice is moral cowardice. And I believe that if the American taxpayer knew they were paying for a significant percentage of the Israeli population not to work (based on their orthodox beliefs) and enlarge the geographical boundaries through tax deductible contributions to the JNF they might have a problem with it independent of the incredible amount of military aid we hand out. But they'll never be allowed to know.

Most of the humans at the top of the power food chain are psycopaths if you ask me. They can rationlize brutality and murder because individual humans are subservient to the interests of power (their personal interests). That's historical fact. The powerful aren't made to fear the little people, and until they do, nothing will ever change. We are simply dispensible pawns and useful appendages to systems they create to execute ends they want to achieve.

When my life comes to an end I'll be thankful for the good and beautiful things I've experienced. As for participation in Western "civilization", I'll be ready to move on to oblivion or whatever comes next because I really don't believe the "means" the "civilized peoples" of the world employ even remotely approach the moral, humane, or civilized. They'll take and consume until they've destroyed everything.

Friday, January 2, 2009 11:06 AM

@ tommy1733 . . . if you are willing to make the following statement . . .

"Why are people down on Israel and coming to the defense of their totalitarian neighbors? Which of the two (Israel or Hamas, or Iran, or ...) is a democratic society? Israel. Which supports free speech and constitutional rule of law? Israel. Which has publicly stated that it is agreeable to the idea of the continued existence of its opponent? Israel. This is real easy for me to see who I support in this part of the world. What am I missing?"

You are clearly missing alot, factually and historically.

1) totalitarian could be an equally descriptive term referencing Israeli actions relative to Palestinians in many many respects.

2) "democratic society" is a loaded phrase just as it is in America and a matter of perspective and degree not just legal or constitutional form.

3) what people say and what they do often don't jive, which is the very essence of propoganda so I tend to evaluate the consistency with which one conforms his conduct to his rhetoric otherwise it is likely propoganda by definition . . . and by the way "most" in the Arab world "accepted the fact of Israel's existence" long ago and have historically repeatedly reached out for some type of compromise, though all parties have been equally guilty of duplicity in favor of continued conflict for one reason or another. The major poltical forces in Israel, by their actions, have shown little if any interest whatsoever in any compromise that reduces their territorial holdings or one where Jewish citizens would ever be put in the position of being a political minority within the boundaries of the state of Israel.

Can you appreciate there is a difference between the following things:

1) anti-zionism

2) anti-policies of the state of Israel

3) anti-semite

Many thinking people can and are sympathetic to #2 without being sympathetic to #1 and #3. More importantly many people, inside and outside of Israel, appreciate that the current path of the state of Israel could erode both its moral position and its continued viability as a state.

Chomsky's Fateful Triangle is a good starting place to begin your education on this subject.

Friday, January 2, 2009 01:23 PM

@ elephantman . . . you're not serious about the following statement . . .

"we conservatives favor all means necessary to protect a civilian population (the far south and far north of Isreal) from regular, indiscriminate rocket attacks."

You mean unless if course it is a "civilian Palenstinian or Iraqi population." Your hypocrisy is clearly self-blinding. Unless of course conservatives support the proposition that university students, professors, and rock throwing children deserve to be arrested, tortured, jailed, and then tried as adults in kangaroo courts, only to be stripped of citizenship and denied any meaningful economic opportunity. Do a little research.

I'm starting to think the righties and the Israel apologists on this site can't read. Here's a couple of newsflashes:

1) because some disagree with a particular policy of the state of Israel or actions conducted by its settlers, police force, IDF, politicians, or whomever, DOES NOT MEAN we love terrorists, suicide bombers, or rocket lobbers of whatever ethnicity . . . or that we are unrepentent anti-semites. You do know that there is ample documentation of the horrific treatment Palestinian civilians receive at the hands of border guards, IDF, settlers et al?

2) Being an ally is one thing, but unconditional, uncritical support of anything is called blind belief. Having huge hypersensitive Israel centered political groups in the US that fly around America threatening, maligning, and personally destroying anyone who makes even the smallest fact based criticism of the actions of the state of Israel is very dangerous for both countries. Not to mention the censorship of Jewish and Palestinian journals and journalists who have the temerity to report or deviate from the state approved script.

Most Active Letters Threads

365

A key British official reminds us of the forgotten anthrax attack

A vast array of establishment and expert sources do not believe this episode was really resolved.
197

Is Obama's civil liberties record understandable?

Was it unreasonable to expect him to adhere to his commitments regarding the Constitution?
96

How dare you criticize wasteful defense spending!

So you think it's only terrorist-appeasing lefties who are down on Pentagon profligacy? Think again
48

Police to talk to Woods

Early morning crash raises questions, and revives tabloid speculation
47

Have yourself a very merry black Friday

The author of "Scroogenomics" explains why holiday shopping is a drain on the wallet and the holiday spirit

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon