but I had no idea to expect wringered tits, knotted testes and panty bunches. I must say, Salon letter writers know how to party. The snark knobs go to eleven around here, and it seems the only thing that can get folks fired up more then the intimable Mr. Greenwald is a story about the sexes.

From an outsider's persepective, I see a lot of silly gender hate on both sides in this thread. Women are yada, the patriarchy is yada yada, Men don't yada enough, whatever. Gender issues are clouded with all sorts of assumptions and blanket statements, annoying as they may be. When it degrades into personal attacks, everybody loses the higher ground, though. Again, I'm an outsider here, but as an owner of a teeny tiny discussion forum myself, it's always been my experience that you can get a lot farther in an argument if you can stick to critiquing the post without critiquing the poster. It's not impossible to remain respectful of a person who believes differently than you do.

Enough of that play well with others and don't run with scissors talk, though. Anon, you keep bringing up the Nick Kiddle case, so here's my unasked for opinion. It's another one of those blasted instances of misdirected silly outrage. It's an unusual scenario, for sure, but does it really warrant this much attention? I suppose for writers like Marcotte, Traister and Roiphe - as well as those that vehemently disagree with them - sensationalism is a way to get people to read (and respond, obviously) Anyway, I didn't read the shocking epilogue, so I don't know all the gory details. All I can say is that much like whether or not Paris Hilton wears her underpants or whether or not Roiphe should be allowed to call herself a feminist, this seems like an issue that's more hot air and bull puckey (on both sides) than it is a real news story.

This has been a fun read, indeed. Thanks for all the great, diverse views from all the posters. I really enjoyed reading all of it. *shuffles back into lurker mode*

*scoots over to make room for black..white..other*

There's room for all of us here. : )

And aside from the difficulty in keeping track of which anon one is discussing/arguing/whathaveyou with, I don't see a problem.

The problem in banning users, even the twatwaffles, is that it doesn't ever stop them. Give an individual who already has too much time on their hands a reason to think you're being mean or unfair to them, they'll show you just how resourceful they can be in getting their opinions heard. Letting them harmlessly warble here in the letters section isn't really an inconvenience to any of us, as we can just as easily skip over the letters that bother us as read them and get our vapors riled. The more you (or we) react to them, positively or negatively, the more they're going to show out.

Salon has always admirably been a venue where people can and do speak their minds. As such, it's a community that does a fine job of policing itself. The majority of the posters here are very intelligent and articulate, and respectful of the people sharing pixels on a screen with them. Don't underestimate the power of such a strog community to do some housekeeping when needed.

Heya, friendly letter writers.

I teach in a large, urban school district that initiated a uniform policy this year. I was very much opposed to it initially, but seeing it in effect has been eye-opening. The kids look fantastic, shirts tucked in, belts, collars - no droopy pants, no thong strings, no skin tight anything. The kids look classy, and I think they recognize it. They sit up a little straighter, they take everything just a bit more seriously - it's been a revelation.

Most of the teachers in the building have taken up the cause, too, and we follow the student dress code. Getting dressed in the morning takes 1/4 of the time and 1/10 of the brain energy for me, I can imagine it making a parent's life a lot easier, too.

When I was a kid, my mom would fuss for 15 minutes with the part in my hair, getting it perfectly straight. "What would your teacher think if your part was crooked?" I can't even imagine what she would have said if I expressed interest in wearing a pair of fuzzy pink pants with the word "juicy" on the rear.

I don't know when it became so hard for parents to temper their child's need for self-expression with a little decorum and self respect. Corporations, such as the dandies that brought us the Bratz dolls and the endless stream of tween tartlets on TV and the radio, are always going to appeal to the lowest common denominator (in this case the "cool" parents who think it's just fine to give their 10 year old daughter the semblance of boobs). The sane parents need to draw a big ole line in the sand and STOP BUYING IT.