SeattleBi mentions "the "ticking bomb" scenario is not something that is ever really going to happen, certainly not something around which to build a policy."

My ex wife's cousin's husband is in military intelligence. I have not talked with him in years, but he is a nice guy. I like him. I believe that he has the best wishes of our country in mind.

He is a highly trained military officer. Remember the military? These are people who think it is a height of duty to _literally_ jump on a grenade in order to save their squad mates.

Think about that for a second. This isn't a metaphor for sacrifice. These are people who will instinctively choose a painful death in order to serve others.

These are good people.

Imagine that you are one of these people. Imagine that you have captured the perfect exemplor of the Ticking Bomb scenario. You absolutely know that this person has information that, if you can get it, will save hundreds, thousands, even millions of lifes.

Let us assume that torture works. If you were a military officer, someone who would jump on a damned grenade in order to save a handful of people, would you be willing to risk legal charges in order to save thousands or millions of lives?

I think that my ex-wife's cousin's husband would. I think it would be a no-brainer. He would be fully willing to sacrifice his own career, and liberty, in order to serve his nation.

Yes, doing your duty can involve breaking the rules. Breaking the law. Even violating fundamental tenants of human decency. And if you are honorable and honest, which I believe our military to be, than you are willing to do these things and to willingly suffer the consequences, when you honestly believe that it is only by your sacrifice that you can serve your nation.

Yeah, I know, it is all very earnest and non ironic. But I almost completely believe it.

The thing is, that this view, this fundamental trust in our military, in their honor and sense of duty, totally answers the 'ticking bomb' scenario.

In my view my miliary will obviously do what they think is necessary to stop the ticking bomb. And they will willingly do this, willing to pay the price.

And, here is the little 'trump card' in the deck, the people are free to help these heroes. They are free to contribute to their defense funds, and to give them jobs. Think of Oliver North. In my view he did not do something honorable, certainly no ticking bomb with him, but he has not suffered because he followed his sense of duty.

Oh, and lest we forget, the president can, and in my view should, pardon anyone in this situation.

So in my view the rather trivial answer to the Ticking Bomb scenario is a simple appeal to the cliched truths of honor, duty, and country.

Am I missing something important here? Is there something I am missing?

RudyPickles asks if waterboarding relies on deception, since in theory you 'know' it isn't really going to kill you, so if you are ready for it you will be okay.

I can't find the link, but someone on this or another thread pointed to some right winger who volunteered to test it out, even with a doctor in attendance he only lasted 30 seconds.

People do die while being water boarded-even when done 'right' it is dangerous. I don't think it is a matter of trickery.

There is something about being restrained, being powerless, and thinking we are about to fucking die which just freaks the shit out of people.

go figure.

I don't have the alcohol experience of Cary. I have been near it, but not like he, so reading the letter my thought is thahe finds the sister sexy.

Different people find this more, or less, offensive. but I know I've found two sisters to be attractive. A neighbor dated one sister, and is now married to the other.

The part where he volunteered more instances where he and the sister were involved is interesting to me.

What are your fears? That he is a drunk who is blacking out? That he might have sex with your sister? Something else? All of the above?

The right response seems to me to depend on what your worry is.

Maybe he isn't making special amends because _he doesn't think he did anything wrong_ He pinched her ass, kissed her, but he didnt' sleep with her. Maybe he thinks in fact that his behavior was virtuous.

Maybe the sister is a drunk harlot, and he keeps pushing her off.

Drunks always think that drinking is the problem. And other people often say that the drinking isn't the problem, and damnit, a _lot_ of the time the drinking isn't the problem.

But I'm pretty sure that not drinking is never the problem.

It is like the t-shirt "Going to renaissance fairs may not be your problem, but it sure as hell isn't helping anything."

"Mass emails: I can see the appeal of this. It gives people the information without needing to go into gory detail answering nosy questions, or reliving painful events. Though were I to get a mass email, I'd assume I wasn't a close friend of the sender. If my girlfriends or cousins or sisters put me on a mass-mailing, I'd probably feel hurt."

That is pretty exactly how I felt when we sent them out. As for the 'close friend' part-it was _especially_ my closest friends who I didn't want to write to individually with the news.

Replying to their concerns was awesome, but I couldn't face writing all those individual emails.

Just my experience.