I really think it's up to the individual man to decide what products he wants to use, if any, beyond basic sanitation.

And then learn to use them skillfully, unobtrusively, and in a manner appropriate for his lifestyle.

To me, makeup begins with healthcare: not smoking, drinking lots of water, eating right, wearing sunscreen and moisturizer. Anything beyond that is surely individual choice and none of my business.

Does anyone think that the previous two letters from Brightstar and one of the Anonymice are simply Too Much Information?

Since, obviously, no woman is up to Brightstar's lifestyle (if you believe him) and standards (ditto), I think he ought to get himself a Real Doll and talk at it.

I'd make a PayPal contribution for that purpose.

And they call -women- narcissistic.

Says Amerigo: "My current girlfriend is not particularly smart, but has many endearing qualities like her good humor, her love for her family and her puppy... and lots of estrogen, but I think one intellectual per household is quite enough."

How do you know there's even one intellectual in your household? Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

Maybe it's the puppy.

At least, Rice spared us the usual smarm about how Hughes is doing this to make her Trophy Children hap-py.

These are, presumably, adult males?

Whatever happened to self control? Whatever happened to impulse control?

You expect a kid to grab for what it wants and you teach the child, boy or girl, better.

Is this cleric saying that men are children where women are concerned? I think he's insulting men's maturity, and if I were a man, I'd be insulted.

So every Muslim man who is the husband and father in a family can't see a woman in Western dress without wanting to jump her? He lusts in his heart? He's JIMMY CARTER?

Infantilizing men is as harmful to them as infantilizing women.

Isn't it bad enough we have to claim XX-ship with Phyllis Schlafly and Lynne Cheney?

Do we HAVE to have Brightstar too?

Oh, the painnnnnnn.....

I see the Intellectual has weighed in. Brightstar is proclaimed to be talking sense. About him at 70 in the speedos (ouch)?

This -is- a tricky cultural interface. If the men are suffering private pain, maybe they should wear blindfolds? Or not look? Or stay indoors?

Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation in the world. I'd be astonished if the customs in Jakarta are the same as those in rural areas. People are going to have to learn to deal, and not by whining the same line of rhetoric that caused a group of men in Saudi Arabia to force schoolgirls to remain in a burning building because they weren't wearing abayas.

Private pain? I can't begin to tell you the amount of private pain I'd like to see those killers face. Of course, I'd feel the same way if they'd have killed boys -- but they wouldn't have.

Got my countries mixed up. It isn't the first time and it won't be the last.

The point remains: if these countries are going to enter global markets, the men -- who inevitably will take the lead, given the mores of these countries -- are going to have to learn to deal.

This cleric is -not- helping.

You know, you -could- scroll on by.

"Shut up" is for the playground.

But I had a good chuckle over some of your assumptions.

Now, to return to the question of "modesty": the Qu'ran requires women to dress modestly. How that's interpreted has spilled a lot of ink -- and a lot of blood. "Modesty" is situational.

This character is attempting to turn modesty into an exaggerated guilt trip. Someone earlier on mentioned the people who dress like baggy versions of "Little House on the Prairie." There are other ways, in the U.S., to dress modestly, and even there, it's situational.

I contend that you need not wear a burqa or abaya to be modest. The shalwar kamez is modest, comfortable, and becoming, for example. If this cleric has a problem with Western dress, that's another issue altogether. I'd cover my head and wear long sleeves and a long skirt in a mosque out of simple politeness: a burqa -- I think I'd stay home.

I've had ties with organized SF fandom for more than 25 years both as a fan and an SF pro. Are you, the LW, in trouble?

Obviously, you have a life and are productive on a very high level. You're not doing the stereotypical get-a-life thing of living in your parents' basement, collecting fanzines (there -are- still printzines, aren't there?) and not bathing.

How can you tell if it's getting away from you? Well, if you're cutting classes or late for appointments, if you lose track of time, miss deadlines, neglect grooming or nutrition, or act impatient with your family more than you would ordarily be, then, Houston, you've got a problem.

An egg-timer might help. Turn the timer on. You are ALLOWED to read fanfic and the boards while it's ticking. In fact, you're not allowed to STOP. When the timer stops, you stop.

Besides, you're a shipper in one of the most harmless relationships. Or, maybe, you need to change your focus. Do you write the fanfic? Ron's and Hermione's kids at Hogwarts? How Teddy Lupin took them on an adventure? How they interact with Harry's and Hermione's kids? What happened when Neville showed them mandrakes?

You've finished your dissertation. Some downtime to relax is vital after so many years of taking it out of yourself. Maybe you could get an academic publication out of the Potterverse: there are formal conferences as well as conventions that you've probably read about. That's a good way to combine two of your passions. Make it a family outing. Dress up your child in a Hogwart's cloak and enjoy.

Your fears are logical; fandom has its downside. But it's also a source of creativity, community, and enjoyment.

Think it over.