I don't think that's the answer. I'm pretty patient, but not that patient - I'd like to see change in my lifetime. The approach Glenn has discussed is the one I can live with:

By taking out some horrible Democrats and creating a system that enables one to do more of that, it makes it harder -- and then, hopefully, impossible -- for them to continue to ignore our political values any longer. They need to know that the consequences for ignoring our political values is the loss of their jobs, the ending of their political careers -- not more blind, slavish support.

The Al-Haramain suit does not involve the telecoms, so it doesn't get swept away with this legislation. The government is being sued in this case.

[pow wow] ...supporting cloture undermines everything Chris Dodd and Russ Feingold have been fighting for, on our nation's behalf, these many months, and during this particular filibuster.

Obama voted aye.

[loose transcript] The new president will have, in the next 4 years, the opportunity to review the bill...

WTF?!

For some, that is.

Obama Voted No On Immunity & Got Fisa Right

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/9/134251/6608/353/548821

"Respectfully, I ask Mike Stark to change the name of his MyBO group with haste."

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Thanks for that, sysprog. I'm the sure ACLU will announce the same, soon.

I was just able to get in again. There's a new point system. Users get points for their activity on the site - initial sign-up, comments, blog posts, etc. I imagine this will be used in the future to weight groups like "Get FISA Right."

I was just able to get in again. There's a new point system. Users get points for their activity on the site - initial sign-up, comments, blog posts, etc. I imagine this will be used in the future to weight groups like "Get FISA Right."

on my.barackobama.com

40 points, 365308th place

I think I'll frame them.

"Just a question, but don't you think that you shouldn't NEED to have a webgroup entitled GetFISAright on the Obama website..."

Well, of course. The 20-odd thousand that signed up to the group were little more than an embarrassment to him. I don't think he'll let that happen again. Which makes it all worse, in my opinion.

that the article on Salon titled "Suing George W. Bush: A bizarre and troubling tale" was written by one of the Al-Haramain attorneys.

Judge Walker's decision last week was a major victory for us. Walker concluded that FISA does indeed preempt the state secrets privilege. More broadly, he addressed the key issue raised by our lawsuit -- the validity of the "unitary executive" theory -- and said what we've been long awaiting: that the president does not have unbridled power to disregard federal statutory law in the name of national security. According to Judge Walker, "the authority to protect national security information is neither exclusive nor absolute in the executive branch. When Congress acts to contravene the president's authority, federal courts must give effect to what Congress has required."

But the ruling also sends us back down the rabbit hole once again. Judge Walker further held that, because of the peculiar way in which the applicable FISA provisions are written, we can't use the Document to confirm our clients' wiretapping until we first make some sort of preliminary showing -- using only non-classified information -- of "enough specifics" indicating that our clients were wiretapped. Only that could lead to a ruling giving us standing -- a burden Walker suggested might be "insurmountable." According to Walker, "if reports are to be believed," we will have "little difficulty" establishing standing once we are able to use the Document. But we can't use it yet. At this point, the Document alone just gives us what Walker called "actual but not useful notice" of our clients' unlawful surveillance. We need something more, from non-classified information, for that "actual" notice to become "useful."

In other words, we must show that our clients were surveilled before we can show that our clients were surveilled. The irony in this is not lost on Judge Walker, who commented that FISA is "not user-friendly."

Judge Walker gave us 30 days to restructure our complaint to make our preliminary case -- based on non-classified information -- for using the Document to confirm our clients' surveillance. We're grateful for the opportunity. We even think we can do it, using bits and pieces of non-classified information that has been revealed about the warrantless surveillance program and the terrorist designation of Al-Haramain in the 28 months since we commenced the lawsuit.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/07/09/alharamain_lawsuit/

Clinton didn't bother to show up in February during FISA votes. Obama, at that time, kept his word with his votes. That's one of the reasons I supported him over her.

I don't recall "finality" in anything Glenn has written other than the votes today and the viability of criminal prosecution in the future.