I understand why you're replying the way you did. Even though I agree with others that your support of Palin does not speak well for your judgment, it doesn't necessarily follow that all of your judgments are wrong. And, I for one, appreciate a conservative at least TRYING to be sensible. I almost never see it, so it's a refreshing change and should be encouraged.

That said, I think you're somewhat mistaken on a few points:

1) Your take is too cynical on this, Cap & Trade doe provide some benefits, and is at least heading in the right direction, albeit too slowly. At least it's not heading in the wrong direction, which we've been doing for at least the prior 8 years.

2) Can't say I disagree with you on this, though I think illegals in the medical system are an overblown "problem." What is the alternative, anyway? Kicking them out to die? But, I think the reason his reform will fail as things stand now (assuming there's no public option), is because it represents yet another transfer of money to people who are causing the problem (the insurance industry), just like the huge amount of money to Wall Street and the criminal banks.

3) His stimulus bill has been weak, but I think it's wrong to say it's a bust.

4) I personally preferred Clinton to Obama, originally, and think she might have been a better president, but I'm not certain of that, and Obama still has the potential to be a great president. I wish he'd get rid of Rahm Emanuel and quite a few others advising him. That said, I don't see Clinton doing what you suggest.

5) I hope you are wrong on this. Palin has no competence, is a venal liar, and I think she is disgusting. What on earth do you find appealing about her? You seem too reasonable and sensible otherwise to fall for her! I've seen it elsewhere with a few conservatives who've been taken in by her, and personally I find it utterly baffling.

--Ron

From OldJoe: And now allow me to prognosticate about the future political situation, knowing that YOU WILL STAY SILENT!!!

1) Obama's legislation Cap and Trade will fail and demonstrate is ineptitude or pass and alienate the small business community of the the US - Either way he loses

2) Obama's health care legislation will fail due to cost, illegals, and the manditory concept showing his ineffectiveness or it will pass and alienate vast sections of the eloctorate

3) Obama's stimulus bill is a bust and unemployment will rise above 10% - an addtional nail in the coffin of his 2012 campaign

4) Just before or after the 2010 midterms Hillary will resign her post as SOS and prepare her run at Obama with Bill at her side - and she will defeat Obama in the primaries

5) The candidates for the 2012 WH will be Clinton vs Palin

I refer specifically to her acceptance speech. She lied all through it, on her first nation-wide public audience! Also, I called her a venal liar, not a venial liar. Venal has its roots in "venom" and I mean that connotation, she's a poisonous liar, because her lies are for no gain, but instead to poison the well of discourse. She lied about the "bridge to nowhere," she lied about all the things she bragged that she did, she is vindictive (look how she went after that trooper ex-inlaw via her position as governor, a despicable act). She deceives with her advocacy about "death panels." The drumbeat accusing her of lying, as you call it, is not without substantiation. No, what lacks substantiation is that she's anything but the lowest form of politician, all actions are to gain political points no matter what damage she does. McCain and his campaign should be deeply ashamed they dragged her out of Alaska, her lack of qualification was unparalleled, and after GWB, that's saying A LOT.

Still, I appreciate the respectful way you respond, and admire how well you said "point taken" earlier. I probably would agree little with what you have to say, but I nonetheless think I'd enjoy knowing you in the real world.

--Ron

"Constantly she is accused of lying - in your post you referred to her as a "venial (forgiveable or excusable) liar". I find this drumbeat curious - please advise about this lack of truthfulness on her part because invarably the charge is leveled without substantiation."

Microsoft management has shown themselves incompetent time and time again. Look at Windows mobile, look at Vista, look at anything they attempt outside of business software. And now I just read that Windows 7 not only is slower than Vista to fully boot up (where everything is usable), it has the same problem windows has always had, it gets slower and self-corrupts over time (probably due to the registry, which is STILL there).

To perpetrate a conspiracy, it takes some measure of competence. It's not there.

Will simultaneously look good for the democrats and VERY bad for the republicans. Every single republican can be hammered with the "they voted FOR the insurance companies and against the people."

In addition to satire being protected speech, I very much doubt there's a prohibition on making a profit off of satire. Otherwise political cartoonists would be unable to charge for their work.