I'm wondering how we get back to the rule of law. Am I right in thinking that our country does not have anyone with the capacity to bring us back to the rule of law? By capacity, I mean someone in a position to charge and bring to trial the lawbreakers, like virtually everyone associated with Bush. I don't see anyone in those positions who'd likely be willing to do so. Certainly Obama is not going to do so, he made that very plain this week with his capitulation toward the rule of men, not law.

So, my question to Glenn is, where should we look? Is an international tribunal even possible? I think that if there were one, the US would bring economic pressure to bear upon any country that would host it or sanction such a thing. I suspect even Obama would be willing to squash it.

I guess what it boils down to is that it seems hopeless. Will that ACLU and EFF suit be a possible mechanism for restoring the rule of law?

It seems to me that since we're already a nation based on the rule of men, it will take men of real character to restore us to the rule of law. That in itself seems wrong. The fact that we've gotten this far shows that there are some serious shortcomings in our constitution.

--Ron

So you're saying evil has to exist for good to happen? Sorry, I don't buy that. Sure, sometimes good things happen in response to bad things, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Sometimes things go backwards, and that's what happened with Helms' help. If we'd not had jerks like him in power, I believe we'd be far better off as a country, and would have made much better progress, instead of constantly battling the same old crap.

--Ron

<<This was not an act of self-flagellation on the part of Helms of course; it was an act of supreme self-indulgence, actually, but still he did it, and those who do not understand this, who feel Jesse Helms and those like him simply slowed the inevitable progress of the good and earnest and decent (liberal?) among us miss the point. The evil was already there, and it was doing its work. Over three decades, and certainly not entirely knowingly, Helms exposed it and layed it out there to be cleansed, repaired, battled and defeated.>>

So, if Moynihan told you to jump off a tall building, you'd consider that valid as well? You're probably just another pathetic closet case. Stay there until you get a clue. I'd say you're being an asswipe, but that might just excite you.

--Ron

<<As far as homosexuals -- even Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) saw them as sexual deviants, and our cultural embrace of that deviance as destructive.>>

Yes, he was polarizing, and got people to organize against him because he was so hateful, it did not make us better, it wasted our time. No one should have had to waste time countering hate, rather than working toward real progress. We spent more time trying not to go backwards than in actually going forward. I blame Helms and others of his evil mindset for the waste of time and money he created. So no, there still is no redeeming quality about him. Although it was meant differently, I keep thinking of this quote by Hector Munro (Saki) in one of his stories: He was one of those people greatly improved by death.

--Ron

George Bush doesn't have the right to introduce bills for congress to vote upon. This bill was likely timed to come up after Obama got the nomination, so that he could vote for it and not pay a big political price for it. Do you really think they would have let this get through if he'd come out strongly and unequivocally against it? He could have done so quietly and in person with the people who were pushing this through, who weren't, by the way, named George W Bush.

There is no way to spin this than to say the one person who could have done the most to stop this piece of crap, Barack Obama, chose not to do so. He deserves condemnation for this craven act. I do not want to see McCain in the White House, so I'll still vote for him, though at this point I wish Clinton would somehow get the nomination, and for it to explicitly be because of his cave-ins and arrogant attitude toward his base. At this point, there is no stand he takes that is better than Clinton's, and plenty that are worse, like I don't think she would be pushing for MORE faith-based initiatives!

--Ron

<<Once again here we go with the assinine comments. There are dummies on here throwing stones at obama rather than the man who wanted this bill george bush, it is unbelievable the amount of prejudice and hatred that runs deep in the heart of some people.Look hilliary is not saint and neither is obama but the line has been drawn ,get over it.>>

What benefit are we as a country getting from all this secrecy? It has been and is abused over and over. Many times we as a country have been harmed by all these secret operations.

I've thought for many years that we should just eliminate the CIA, and all government secrecy laws. Of course, that's unlikely to ever happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted.

--Ron

I'm so tempted to lay into Obama for this. He was never my first choice, or even second choice. Ironic that all the criticisms laid on Clinton for being so ambitious (as if that was inherently wrong), apply more strongly to Obama.

I will not contribute to Obama's campaign, but instead when I can, will contribute more to the money bomb campaign. At this point, I'm only giving tepid support to Obama, simply because I can't stand the idea of having another f'g republican as president. Thanks, Obama, for killing as much enthusiasm as possible in as short a time as possible. You could not be more plainly two-faced than to act one way to get the nomination, and then immediately turn around and do like he has since then, with the FISA cave first of all in order of infamy, and with the idea that he wants to expand the faith-based bullshit next. I dread what else he'll cave in on. So fuck it, I'm not going to hold my tongue too much, though I am holding back some despite how angry with him I am.

I wish we could rid ourselves of Reid and Pelosi, along with Hoyer and some of the other worse-than-worthless democrats. I hope someone will challenge Obama in the next election and get a real democrat in the presidential office, rather than an extension of the worst democrats.

--Ron