and a lot of torture is small. the difference between no torture and a little is immense.

giving a license to office-holders to torture at all will ultimately lead to abuse and moral collapse. the sociopaths in and working for the bush regime should be in jail, from the thug in the hood right up the ladder to dubya.

unfortunately, these people are not rare freaks, they are a significant fraction of america, perhaps even a majority. while i believe democracy is the cure for this evil, and many others, the existence of natural 'hench-men' in great numbers means that america will remain the serf-state it is for some time to come.

democracy needs citizen quality people, and america just does not measure up.

neither can congress impeach him. that would be an admission of guilt.

just another example of the profound difference between oligarchy and democracy: the oligarchs have a natural interdependence, and are very reluctant to attack one another lest they be next.

in a democracy, 'recall' would be available, and citizen initiated prosecutions. too bad the people of america have been trained to leave government in the hands of their betters.

but they won't, they're afraid of mexico.

if everyone who could use a motor scooter did so, would that reduce pollution?

another:

what if people started to use bicycles, and buses? would that help?

an initial large reduction in ghg is easy, but no politician dares say so. just another reason to prefer democracy to oligarchy: if ordinary people want to save the planet, they could. if they wait for politicians, it will be too late.

rational discussion on an american site? let's hope it catches on, but history against.

americans still haven't grasped that the laws and customs of their country were crafted by 'men of property' to protect their property, and no substantive change can happen until the constitution is replaced, with one based on democratic principles.

without citizen initiative, the people must submit, or rebel violently.the former remains the likely outcome.

why are americans content to watch their masters ruin the nation and shame it with torture?

because doing something about it would expose them to censure from the political elite.

it's a lack of motivation. americans work for themselves, and when they must work for others, then they must deliver profits today, because their boss wants it now.

plutocracy, american version: winners grin, and losers pay the bill.

capitalism doesn't work, you see the ruins of lives all around you, and still you let the barons of the beltway run things for their wealth and convenience.

"you get the government you deserve" means spineless voters get arrogant masters.

various american governments have been violating human rights since 1776.

politicians have to be careful of voters, in the same way as the mahout must be careful of his elephant. he can use the elephant to do whatever he wants, but he mustn't upset the elephant.

so human rights are mostly violated outside the usa, on people who don't vote, or have cousins who do. being non-voters, they are non-people.

the bush regime was typical of the american character, not the 'good' american character, the other one, the majority one: the one that profited from slaves, gloried in jim crow. the one that called ethnic cleansing 'manifest destiny'.

the inventors of the phoenix program and free-fire zones are torturers, the supporters of the contras were torturers, the school of the americas trained death squads and torturers.

when obama says: "we don't torture," he means 'not this year' because it's getting a bit smelly. but he can't can't stop the next dubya from torturing anymore than he can punish the last one for torturing. america doesn't have, can't have, national policies, only a succession of political gangsters doing what they want.

torture was fashionable yesterday, and will be again tomorrow. the notion that america has a national reputation to defend would be laughable, if the victims would just stay out of sight.

outside of america. the contras, the free-fire zones, the school of the americas, abu graib, gitmo, bagram...

but the writer is correct, this is not just the republicans, this is the political class.

electing a king does not change the relationship. when you vote for men, you are ruled by men. only when you vote for laws, through referendum, are you ruled by law.

is there some part of the world that is not marked with oppression, poverty, pollution, war, famine? that is the society we have, with capitalism driving governments.

time for a change.

if mankind can not effectuate a rational and just society, we are going to destroy our planet.

democracy is necessary to socialism, and socialism is necessary in our spaceship earth. we can not allow the looters to continue, for it has turned out that the earth is not flat and resources not everlasting.

they plundered the economy not out of economic theory, but simple greed. the greed was unfettered, again, by the latest political facilitator, and will be unleashed, again, and again, until the people take charge of politics, and use politics to rule 'for the people'.

the problem is not the chicago school, it's the lack of democracy.

the worst part is, the liberals would like to believe it is just something invented by dubya's gang, or a function of republican rule. just put dems in, and house will be cleaned.

didn't work, won't work. it's democracy or evil.

as a relief from the real torture of shackles and sleeplessness.

six times a day! "not enough, please can i have more, he cried!"

the last line in 'animal farm' was something like "they looked just the same."

there really is only one party in the usa, with two factions that contend for power with a proxy war at regular intervals.

selling this as a form of democracy was brilliant marketing - doublethink before the term was invented. buying this myth is proof that the character of the american electorate deserves everything they don't get.