In addition to the great work that you has done to affect the minds and reports of MSM members, you have also attracted the highest quality of bloggers who add so many facts and insights into the discussion. I have been unable to spend any time reading Salon and your responders for the last week and have only been participating in your blog for a few months, but today’s responses have been superb- the best ever for me. Thanks to everyone. And so far, there has been no sidetracking into libertarianism or other unnecessary topics.

Since you know shooter far better than I, are you confirming that he is serious in his views and attacks and not just having a lot of fun stirring things up? Is he really worth wasting any time on, even just a reasonable comment like yours?

You have made an extremely valid point when you wrote, “we must not forget that there really are tons of outstanding journalists and publishers and other media news producers.” When our emotions start flowing because of the damage the M$M has wrought through illegitimate and/or lazy journalism, we often strike back with strident words or overgeneralizations. While we clearly need to be loud to get their attention, I remind you of what I tell my Japanese-American wife when our cultures clash, “Harsh criticism is a lot like falling snow, when heavy, you can’t see what’s going on, when light, insights are there to be seen.”

Being too needy when you want something from someone, can take something from you. I read responses from very concerned people who, maybe partly because of Internet group mentality, use words and advocate similar practices of those right-wingers and neocons that we so rightly condemn. When you put others down unfairly, you are putting yourself down.

The state of our journalism is not as bad as many bloggers contend. El Cid has made that clear in his succinct post. If it were that bad, then Glenn should have given up long ago. We need to deal with making changes in poor journalistic practices in the way that Glenn does- with facts and logic. When we lump caring M$M even though their journalism is lacking and blast them as idiots and moneygrubbers, they will not listen. Yes they work for corporations who make their life difficult. That doesn’t mean that the individual journalist can’t effect some change or an entire newspaper enterprise make a significant correction, like the NYT, when the criticism is delivered clearly, often and professionally.

If we keep telling ourselves that things are so terrible, we are in danger of developing a type of “cult” mentality that can greatly weaken our effectiveness. Fortunately, I am very appreciative that on this site, there are many bloggers who understand that.

Thanks for the further illumination. I consider you an optimistic pessimist, just like me.

Your prolific and thoughtfully reasoned postings and the equally fine responses to them have provided an excellent discussion. Try as I might, I couldn't find anything worthwhile to add. All of you pretty much kept unreasonable, emotional responses out of the discussion. It is too easy to throw out assumptions and then defend them without listening to other inputs. A lot of listening went on today. I look forward to the quality remaining so high. I hope the discussions of Democrats in the Congress are of even half the quality of the postings here. If anyone has any personal, Democratic congressional or M$M contacts, please provide them this link. They will learn a lot.

Your prolific and thoughtfully reasoned postings and the equally fine responses to them have provided an excellent discussion. Try as I might, I couldn't find anything worthwhile to add. All of you pretty much kept unreasonable, emotional responses out of the discussion. It is too easy to throw out assumptions and then defend them without listening to other inputs. A lot of listening went on today. I look forward to the quality remaining so high. I hope the discussions of Democrats in the Congress are of even half the quality of the postings here. If anyone has any personal, Democratic congressional or M$M contacts, please provide them this link. They will learn a lot.

Ignore my last posting. It was posted to the wrong Glenn article.

How about impeachin Rappin Rovy first and then goin after Clammy Chenney and finally Bumblin Bush?

I have a simple solution for you and other Salon readers regarding Shooter242, first look for who has posted, and when it is him (my spell check said use he, but I just can’t), don’t read it. Unfortunately, there is no simple solution for the depressingly commonplace thinking of the others like him. Plugged ears and closed minds yield “ends justify the means” thinking and disastrous results.

When you believe you are smarter than everyone else either because you have God on your side or you are egomanaical, you don’t worry about silly little details like what will Iran, the Sunnis and Shias, the Bathists, the tribal leaders, the Saudis, the Syrians etc. will do when you invade. You just worry about gaining votes, implanting democracy and one-upping daddy.

I worry about the enablers, but I worry more about the manipulators. When this simple president lives in such a simple, good versus evil world, those who don't, whether they are his vice president, staff, media, religious leaders, foreign leaders or politicos, can wreak havoc on our world simply by working on a weak, insecure psyche. This has to be the last time we give the power of the presidency to such insecure character. And we better insist on a close look at who will be on the team and whether they have the nation's or their personal best interests in mind.