So, you're saying that I'm a traffic accident that you can't tear your eyes from?

Never a traffic accident. But I'll bet I couldn't tear my eyes from you.

So basically "progressive" is like liberal, only with a good "fuck the poor" thrown in for good measure. That's what I thought. Oh and screw minorities, too. No mention of civil rights there, not even gay marriage ("Out of wedlock marriage" I can't even begin to comprehend, it's too complicated for me.)

No.

I stopped there because I didn't wish to lay out paragraph after paragraph of problems that need to be addressed. These things I assumed you knew.

BTW, screw all that "decent" and "access". Who pays for the health care? Are you so progressive you can't say that.

If you're trying to piss me off, you're succeeding. I didn't use words like "universal" in order to avoid moronic debates over things like socialism. It should be clear, however, that by "decent" and "access," I mean just that--the human language of "decent" and "access" which means, to most of us, that actual humans can seek medical care that won't drive them into bankruptcy. What tool is used to assure that (universal access, for example) is secondary to me.

Let's see, what else did you write that irritated the shit out of me? Oh, yes: "Progressive is turning out to be just what I thought. It's liberalism for people who are afraid of conservatives and only care about themselves. And 'ridiculously lethal and expensive wars'? If you know of another kind, please let the US government know about it. It could save many lives."

Derbig, I don't know, you might be simply an asshole or you might be encouraging me to define my terms. One thing's for sure: your attitude doesn't encourage discourse/conversation; your aggressiveness encourages only aggressiveness in return. Is that what you want? I know I don't.

@tim3 ..I am here until jan 20, 2009....

Good for you.

Thought I should say that while I was still surly.

I'm calming myself. Oooohmm.

Under what provocation, or to acheive what end, will we fight wars? To what extent are you prepared to sacrifice what you have so that others may live? And what are the principles of progressivism? Again, what are the principles of progressivism. At what point does progressivism draw a line and say: "You may not pass!"

I don't speak for "progressives" as such. But you already know that. I can only tell you what I believe. I don't believe war, in any conventional sense regarding terrorism, will bring us (and, lo, millions of others) anything but misery. Law enforcement--and all that entails--regarding the likes of al Qaeda is the preferred approach.

As for "You may not pass!" I defer to the universal idea of decency. That means, whether it involves torture, rendition, gay marriage (or any other civil right, here, in the US), these are the things that must be in accordance with our own Constitution and international laws/treaties that we've subscribed to (and if we haven't yet, then we should).

I'm certain I haven't covered all bases to your satifaction, but perhaps you'll give me a little leeway on that. Because they aren't mentioned doesn't mean they aren't important.

Where would I go to find them? Or is it just something which is "in the air" or extropalated from the latest Indy rock hits? Does progressivism have any basic and immutable principles? What are they?

Nope. You're free to reject what I've written. You're free to explore these things on your own, as you see fit.

I see no need to provide you with a classical, all-encompassing definition of present-day progressivism. You'll understand (and I know you will) when I say I have better things to do with my time. I enjoy your writing and your sense of humor.

No wonder you get anxious when you are asked about it.

Please.

But it is interesting that you get angry at me asking what are, after all, only the most basic and natural questions.

Look at your language: So basically "progressive" is like liberal, only with a good "fuck the poor" thrown in for good measure. That's what I thought. Oh and screw minorities, too. No mention of civil rights there, not even gay marriage ....

What other sort of reaction would you expect?

And, then: You sure as hell don't, do you? Do you think that's because there isn't one? You can't even be bothered to give me a link? One little stinkin' link? Thanks, Tim. I can see how much progressiveism means to your life.

This is beneath you.

You, sir, are a stalwart fellow. I enjoyed (which is to say, appreciated) your argument regarding Chiquita/corporate clients, etc. While, as a matter of principle, I agree with Glenn regarding representation, I acknowledge your point about the thousands daily who receive minimal (and I'm thinking here of court appointed attorneys) legal aid.

who is this Glistening Between Thighs?

(that's worth a delete right there)

Why the repeat?

man, that's really fast!

Gonna Brave Toothache;

Gruffly Brayed Thomas;

Groddily Behaved the Gang;

Glibly--But There (go I);

Good (enough)--Behold The (past--which is no more).

I needed to get it all out. Glenn, I hope, will forgive me.

I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. I come into the presence of of still water. And I feel above me the day-blind stars waiting for their light. For a time, I rest in the grace of the world, and I am free.

From me, silence.