Minor point, but the 'ol monkey curiosity compels me to ask.

I see that the credit card fraud charges aren't included this time. http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/terrorism/usalmarri22609ind.html

With BushCo, credit card fraud seemed to be the default charge for any supposed terrorism case that fell apart, used as an all-purpose hook, to hold somone , and delay.( or a CMA justification of an innocent person?) Does the change in charges , especially after such a long period, have any bearing on the current al Marri case? Also, in general, is there anything in the wire fraud laws that is overly broad, and subject to abuse by the government? Changes needed?

^ * or a CMA justification for detention of an innocent person?)*

...in part

Yet this one single case of documented complicity in torture ....

....in the face of far, far greater, more heinous and more direct war criminality by their highest political leaders...

Fewer people involved, and less extensively, make it less difficult to confront.Plus more actual "journalism, that compromised fewer in the media. That, and the insularity of American experience in general. The politicians,pundits, and the public are more exposed to outside news and opinion. Here , hardly anything gets in, even from right next door. ( See Bush, & Canadian lumber tariff, for ex.) Divergenge from reality(law, ideals, etc) has fewer, and less robust correcting mechanisms.

What to do about it? - ????? Maybe...., reversing media consolidation might start to unravel the knot?

Pedinska, I 've asked them directly, here and elsewhere, to explain how the I.F. policies benefit the US, and if they are in our best interest. A: *crickets*. Totally ignore it . Good luck on the attempt , though. ;)

As for the title topic, good to see a few more cracks in the wall . We've been here before, sort of, with Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams . Much of the criticisms of anybody that wanted to deal with Sinn Fein were similar to those we hear now about talking to Hamas, Hezbollah, or Iran. Once Clinton broke the taboo, a deal got done . Probably could have been done a lot sooner , if anybody had tried.

Re WantstobeinTelAviv, I seem to remember a German man facing 3yrs in prison for saying, in regard to 9/11, that we had it coming, and got what we deserved. ( I thought Bush/we could have gained a lot positive PR by coming to his defense , and standing up for what we supposedly believe in . Like a lot of things, he/we missed the opportunity. Don't know how it turned out)

ps. In case any of y'all are bored, you might want to take a whack at this one : http://media.www.cornellbusiness.com/media/storage/paper145/news/2009/03/09/Perspectives/How-The.Numbers.Lie-3664711.shtml

His " those on the Left" strawman is probably all burnt up already, so he could use something more substanstial ;)

the itch , calamine , see if you can sooth it .As you're the the IFer present at the moment, please answer the essential questions. We ( US) provide the money, weapons, and UN cover for Israel to do what they do. Other than being pooorer and more hated, what to we get out of it? Why is it in our best interest to continue it?

that it's actually been tried somewhere. I look forward to learning the results.

A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought it remotely possible here, but now I hear more and more people questioning it. I've even heard it from a fair number of RW/authoritarian/kill-em-all types, that I'd never suspect had DFH leanings. ;)

I watched a House hearing yeterday, with the Honorables grilling people from ICE and the Border Patrol . They took the day off from being scared! about the terr-rists to worry about the evil Mexican hordes. Not one questioned the underlying assumptions of the WoD. Nothing about ICE's mission or whether it needs to exist . Some seemed miserably ignorant, or at least actively indifferent, to the responsibilities of the the various agencies,the National Guard, and the military . Posse Comitatus? What's that? (Nobody said it - just seemed unaware) The only allowable areas for debate seemed to be about particular levels of enforcement, prosecution, and funding . Looks to be a long trip from here to there .

lol PDA! ( Careful! You could get arrested for stuff like that - just ask that kid in Alaska) Whenever I hear someone in high dudgeon about "drugs" ( the M. Phelps thing, for ex.), esp. marijuana, I mentally substitute "tobacco" in it's place. The result is usually about that silly.

macgupta, I've been assaulted, and otherwise abused by mean/stupid drunks, but have never been caused any trouble by

hippie lettuce afficiandos.I'll take the potheads, thanks. One of the problems with our current policies is that naturally occuring organisms ( marijuana, salvia, psilocybin mushrooms, morning glories, etc) are just too easy to obtain. Might as well ban houseflies. It's just stupid. If some people cause problems, just penalize the behavior that harms others. Anything else is their business.

Re the icky OLC torture thing , what's the big deal? Just let bygones be bygones. Afterall,(h/tNewsHacks) Miss Universe Calls Gitmo Beautiful, Calm

Doesn't that settle it?

( :)))) - I get various updates direct from Wingnut Central, just to keep up with next round of Junior Wingnut talking points.)

I'm as racist or non-racist as anyone else here, this is frankly stupid, and the stupidity reflects on everyone who lets it go on without mention.

-- omooex

Usually, by the time I see it, I'm at a complete loss as to wtf it is, or is about (or even who it's about) . Color me confused . :)

ps Amity, nice wingnut performance art. You've ~got it nailed.Kinda the "truthiness" version. It feels right. ;)

Usually, by the time I see it, I'm at a complete loss as to wtf it is, or is about (or even who it's about)

.......or why I should care.

jebbie , :) Mmmmmmm, brownies!