"In legal terms, there is a difference between a private club (to which you can deny pretty much anyone admission at will) and a place that is open to the public for commerce. Public accommodations (hotels, restaurants, theaters, etc) are supposed to be accssible to the people (pesky, damn civil rights laws!). So, you are in legal terms wrong when you want to argue that bars are not public places where people have a right to be."

Hilarious. You took the the time to supposedly "educate" yourself and you still got it wrong. I never argued, to use your language, "that bars are not public places where people have a right to be". What I said was that you don't understand the difference between public places and places that serve the public. You still don't. For example, while bars serve the public and can't legally discriminate based on race or sex, they can limit who is allowed entrance and service based on age. In fact, they are legally required to limit service to certain people. I guess that 21 and over thing escaped you. For your next assignment, look a little deeper into the "rights" surrounding public places owned by the public versus places that serve the public and are privately owned. Simply put for your understanding, nobody can keep you from going out into the street with your kid, but, you can certainly be blocked from going into a bar with him/her. If you don't think so, go file a discrimination suit against a bar who denies your minor kid entrance. If you can find a lawyer who won't laugh you out of his/her office.

"I did prefer to make fun of all the stuffy petulant people who want to establish bars as a kid-free zone (rather than making other arguments). It's a lot more fun. And it has the added bonus of irritating the irritable (yes, you)."

No, you preferred to try and make fun because you didn't have anything intelligent to say. Apparently you still don't because again you have to invent an argument, the "kid-free zone", and attribute it to others, but the notion that people who don't want kids in bars are stuffy and petulant and want a general kid free zone is amusing. Yeah, the people who bring kids to bars are okay but the people who complain about it are the problem. How dare those stuffy and petulant people complain about kids being in in bars! After all, parents shouldn't have to go beer free! Kinda ass backwards reasoning.

"I have no problem with kicking rowdy patrons out of bars, including people with run away kids. I don't let my kids run amok in bars or restaurants. If we are out to dinner and one of our kids is being obnoxious, one of us takes them out while the other eats, and then the grown ups switch places to save other patrons from annoyance. I have seen parents who are not so conscientious. They bug me too--just b/c some of us have kids doesn't mean we aren't annoyed by the spawn of others (not to mention our own sometimes)."

Okay.

"But I tire of knee-jerk hostility to kids in public spaces. You were a kid once yourself, and other members of the community tolerated you, so don't be so intolerant now that you are an adult. Oh, but I guess that would deprive you of the pristine life to which you feel entitled.",/i>

Cue the violins... What a load. So, I was a kid once? We all were. Big Whoop. The so-called "knee-jerk hostility" you tire of is not knee jerk. It's a reaction to precisely the behavior you mentioned in your previous paragraph. Duh. Besides, we're not talkng about kids in generic public spaces, we're talking about kids in bars. You're trying to blur the difference to make your point. It's not working.

Also, I love Modern Parenting here in the good ole USA, because only in this crazily self-centered environment could suggesting that parents not take their kids to bars lead to an accusation of being intolerant and desirous of a "pristine life". Yes, it certainly is tiresome that some expect certain places that serve the public to conform to their whims, but hey, I guess you needed a drink and had to go to a bar and had to take the kid and stroller along. After all, taking kids to a bar is "right" guaranteed by Constitutional Law! Goodness gracious.

You stance is reasonable and well said, but, I'd like to add that, as evidenced by the reaction of the mother you mentioned, it is somewhat of a legal or, more accurately, a "perceived rights" issue. Parents do not have the legal "right" to bring their minor children to bars in the first. I don't know how some folks got that right into their heads. Breastfeeding once you get there is a dubious side issue. The rule is usually 18+ to enter and 21+ to drink. Now bars may allow parents to bring their minor children in with them in an effort to keep the peace or be good neighbors or whatever but that's a different matter.

Usually cops are only going to isssue tickets/fines for underage drinking because that's the hard law. The other stuff is more of a wink and nod "spitting on the sidewalk" type of thing and I think it's for the best. You're also not going to see a successful discrimination suit because the 18+ to enter and 21+ to drink in NY is more business practice than law. The 21+ to drink is the hard law. Regular bars and nightclubs usually go with 18/21 while resturants like say...TGIF, that have bar areas or serve alcohol, usually go with okay for kids so long as they are accompanied by parents. Besides, there's no constitutional right to take minors to bars such that by not allowing them you're violating somebody's civil rights.