When you acknowledge the valid points and problems of both sides, speak respectfully to others, listen even when you don't agree, don't resort to absurd charicature to demonize your opponents, and don't endorse terrorism, guess what: no one thinks you're a troglodyte from the Middle Ages!

No, I don't still beat my wife.

Just to make it clear for you, I don't believe that the fetus has special rights of personhood that override the mother's rights, and I don't believe that abortion should be illegal...just like 99.999% of the libruls who post here.

I also don't believe that most liberals here on Salon care much about the moral aspects of abortion, in comparison to, say, the moral aspects of eating meat, or owning a Hummer.

As a matter of fact, "most liberals" here seem to care way, way more than you do about the moral aspects of abortion.

Most liberal here seem to care way, way more about winning a rock-throwing contest.

So, don't tell me about the law, nature, or what God wants when it comes to abortion. And PLEASE don't talk about morality, especially when it is all you good "Christians" who also love things like the death penalty, torture, war, racism, WalMart, and, most of all, keeping people poor and sick and stupid by working to destroy any kind of public effort to help people get a leg up in this toilet of a world.

Your brilliant exposé of the christian mind set is appreciated. You should also know, however, that buddhists also believe that abortion is a morally negative action...although buddhism does not ban abortion:

http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/abortion.htm

You're not correcting anything, because virtually nobody on the opposing side is listening to you. Read fortlauderdale, to get a hint why.

Reading this thread (which was what I was referring to) I don't see a lot of good conversations. Few people I would want to talk to in real life, anyway.

Well, good luck with whatever it is you're trying to do here.

When in doubt, do nothing.

- anon

people who don't like choice are stupid, people who do are smart.

now I can get back to loading up my ipod.

At some point in its development a fetus has a brain, and perhaps thoughts. It reacts in the womb like an organism, rather than as an organ or as a kind of tissue.

So while one might not want to issue the fetus a social security card, one might still consider the fetus a living being, albeit one that is totally dependent on the mother.

Brightstar, your parole officer is on the phone...

The state sometimes claims rights over people's bodies. Drug laws, for example. And laws against committing suicide.

Take that up with the courts, not me.

Curiously, as of 1963, six states still considered attempted suicide a crime--North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2501/is-suicide-against-the-law

My point was that the state can take a position against suicide...not that suicide is currently a crime in the US.

My pro-life position is mainly personal. I realize that the legal tradition in our country is mostly pro personal rights and pro choice, and women are going to terminate their pregnancies regardless of what I think about it (thousands per day in the US alone). And I know that the far right is well on its way to removing itself from the discussion due to extremist behavior.

So my attitude is really just an internal value...if you think that constitutes an "unhealthy interest" in the affairs of others, that's your problem not mine.

The rest of Salon is not quite as cliquish as UT. Although Brightstar obviously has some woman issues, he also sometimes has an interesting take on the topic at hand.

If I were seeing two women, I would just break it off with the one I was less interested in (in person) and call it a day. But this is just a hypothetical, since I have never been "in-demand" with women to this extent.

Maybe "in-demand" men have different rules.

"Freaky dude lusts after Asian chick".

Why is it so hard to believe that an Asian woman might find an Anglo guy exotic and attractive?

I never would have thought of that.

Abortion is legal, sterilization policies are such that the doctor doesn't get sued...I'm not following your "society owns women" argument.

As for dialog...there are still parts of the south that are pretty racist, even in this day and age. Occasionally they get up and vote for somebody you don't like.

That dialog is pretty much dead.

I'm almost 50 but I don't own my residence. This is a big red flag for most women in my demographic.

Of course I'm going to consider an Asian woman or any other nationality for that matter.

so why do you care? Let us have our Asian daydreams.

Go to Hobby-Lobby and pick out something for dad this Father's Day.

15 years later, I took post-bac classes for a couple of years and then attempted (unsuccessfully) to get a masters degree in computer science:

$40,000 more in debt

School has definitely gotten a lot more expensive.

Sweeping generalizations are what give flight to the human soul.

Basically, the "winners" interbreed successfully most of the time. But the "losers" are not so lucky...their self-loathing and personality disorders frequently prevent mating entirely.

Some of these men go outside the pool of available college-educated white women, hoping that their loser qualities will not be quite so evident through the bilingual fog. And there lie more than a few happy marriages.

Of course these race traitors are to be despised, not because any college-educated white woman would want to date them (duh), but because removing them from the pool of all available men reduces the competitive pressure somewhat.