The warrantless eavesdropping provisions of the bill are clearly unconstitutional on Fourth Amendment grounds, but the Court has made such a mess of 4A doctrine that nobody can guess what the outcome would be.

The constitutionality of the telecom amnesty is less clear, at least to me. I can construct some preliminary arguments to challenge their constitutionality but it's far from clear that they would prevail.

Wouldn't you first have to demonstrate to the Court that you had "standing" to file a claim in the first place? Isn't that requirement one of the biggest problems facing opponents of this surveilance activity?

Without the means to force the telcos to divulge who they spied on, how in the world would anyone be able to prove they had standing to file suit?

My understanding of the current situation is that the Judge was leaning toward granting some pretty wide discovery rules but was also waiting for Congress to better define the limits imposed by FISA. With Congress now set to give the telcos everything they wanted, won't the result be the failure of these suits due to their failure to prove "standing", not that the telcos did everything legally?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't know if it will or not.

Then why did you say it? See what I mean about credibility?

But if progressive make it clear that the failure to protect our civil liberties cost Obama the White House, they might get the message.

Oh, yeah. Swell. In the meantime, McCain's handlers use the additional 4 years that you and your ilk want to give them to strip even more of our liberties. That certainly makes sense.

McCain won't run a goddamned thing except his mouth and you (should) know this. He's exactly the same as George W. Bush in that he'll be a figurehead, chosen for office only because he's "likable" and "electable". A McCain administration will be run by the same folks who gave us these last 7 years of our journey toward fascism.

That you seem to believe that a McCain presidency will do no further harm to our Republic is yet another reason why people should give your words absolutely no notice. You have no credibility whatsoever.

You are aware, of course, that the Supreme Court decided in Roe v Wade that the concept of privacy is very much in play when interpreting the Constitution.

If what you are claiming is correct, the pro-life crowd has been correct all along.

No?

I am outta here. This place is an insane asylum and most of you are fucking nuts.

Damn! And here I was just getting used to being a "surly lurker".

Are nuts anything like sheep?

Are goats anything like sheep?

if Obama fillibusters this bill when it gets to the Senate?

He will receive press notice, no?

Let's further say that when he gets a gadzillion dollars worth of free press exposure, he explains very clearly that his only gripe with the FISA "compromise" is the part about telco immunity. Everything else in the bill, he says, can stay there and be sent to the President in less than a day if they remove the part about giving immunity to telcos.

What's he's done in this scenario, is akin to making the Republicans piss into the wind when they oppose his very, very public startment for surely, the general population (read voters) will not support holding this bill exclusively due to its not giving immunity to Madam Bell and her fellow whores.

Any luck attracting very proper Irishwomen to the Friday night Hully Gully, by the way?

No, I am afraid not.

Perhaps I should have just asked her to post more often as it seemed she would be of value here. Every blog is enriched when redheads with brains participate and, expecially given the events of the last few days, we could use more of the feminine touch here whether they can do the Hully Gully in the buff or not. She could always hide behind Pedinska!

William, I've been meaning to ask you something.....is it true that you ran up San Juan Hill next to Teddy?

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Note to Mom......none of the above is meant to mean I have forsaken you for a younger woman.

I thought you too tangential and cranky to engage.

You were half right.

LWM would engage a duck if he thought he could milk it for a couple of hours.

Come back soon.

The absurdities you spout are symptomatic of BDS-Extremis. Either get electroshock treatment or a lobotomy will you? Its embarassing to have to admit you're the same species as the rest of us humans.

Having more than one lobotomy is contraindicated by good medical practice as is the application of electroshock therapy to an individial with an abnormally high level of mucus in the cranial cavity.

Please stick to law and leave the doctoring to us professionals.

Its just so frustrating sometimes, y'know?

A Troll's Job Number One is to frustrate people. Therefore, please do not give Shooter the satisfaction of showing your frustration. If he knows he's done that to you, he will wet his pants and any semblance of intelligence he's squirreled away will run down the leg of his stool.