“It is incredible what people say under the compulsion of torture, and how many lies they will tell about themselves and about others; in the end, whatever the torturers want to be true, is true.” -- German Jesuit Friedrich von Spee, 1631

What are you implying here Jebbie?

I'm not implying anything. I am stating fact. Israeli tanks ran over innocent Palestinians. The phrase "greased the treads of their tanks" is a standard (and old) military expression for that act.

Why do you endorse the murder of innocent Palestinian women and children, Steve?

Apparently Justice Murphy was incorrect.

Jebbie, I hope you are not living in north America; in the United States. You are on the side of the enemy.

I live right here in the United States. I also find it repellant for anyone to celebrate the deaths of innocent civilians.

Did you celebrate the deaths of innocent Palestinians when the treads of Israeli tanks were greased with their remains?

Did you celebrate the death and dismemberment of innocent Palestinians who were blown up beyond recognitiion by Israeli bombs supplied by the United States, Steve.

Did you even smile when shown the photos of dead Palestinian babies killed by Brave Israeli Pilots from 30,000 feet, Steve.

For some reason, I believe you did.

People like you, Steve, give humans a bad name.

should definately read OnTheBeat's letters archieve.

He's a real hoot! Illiterate, but still a hoot.

Does the name Tomoyuki Yamashita ring a bell?

Did you watch the video of the Nick Berg be-heading? Did you watch the other be-headings of innocent Americans? How many be-headings have you actually watched Kitt?

Have you watched videos of Israeli troops slaughtering women and children in Gaza earlier this year, Steve?

Should we give the survivors of the Gaza atrocities money to purchase aircraft to bomb innocent civilians of Tel Aviv with white phosphorus or to purchase tanks with which to run over some innocent Israeli children? Should we give the Palestinians modern sniper rifles so they can more easily pick off Israeli first responders as they tend to the injuries of the wounded Israelis in Tel Aviv, Steve?

Is that the sort of tit-for-tat that you are advocating, Steve?

You're way over my head, buddy.

As often as that must happen to you, don't you think you should be used to it by now?

It's past time for some federal judge to declare Holder in contempt and order him arrested and jailed until the Justice Department complies with his orders.

Impeach!

How is it that men in charge of private enterprise are rapacious fiends, but when they are in government they are selfless and public minded?

Persons in the government are, eventually subject to removal from their positions. While we do far to little of this, there is a procedure for the public to remove office holders from office and replace them with office holders who may do the right thing. If they don't, they can also be removed.

When is the last time the public could remove the head of a private corporation?

What is the goal of those persons who can remove the head of a corporation? It's to make money. Very few, if any, corporate heads have been removed because they made shareholders too much money.

Yes, it takes time and effort to remove a rancid office holder but it can be done.

I'm outa here. This thread has run its course and I have no intention of providing a platform for kooks and anarchists.

If I was being water-boarded endlessly I would nominate Sarah Palin for President at the Republican Convention if I thought it would stop.

and therein lies the problem. That a major newspaper would even consider printing a story like this without even alluding to, much less confirming the obvious fact that torture does not provide accurate intelligence and certainly does not mention that torture is illegal under both U.S. and International law is a travesty. That Cheney's unproven claims are given equal weight and treatment with actual facts is the problem here.

Torture, regardless of whether it provides accurate intelligence or does not, is illegal.

To write a major story on the subject of torture and not state that simple fact seems to indicate that the reporters have their heads stuffed up their asses, regardless of their previous work.

Why isn't the Washington Post quoting former FBI director Mueller? He is on record as admitting that he knows of no, repeat, no terrorist plots against the U.S. that were foiled through the use of torture. A reasonable person would think that the Director of the FBI would certainly be in the loop if such intelligence had been useful. Either Mueller was kept out of the loop, or Cheney is lying throug his teeth.

Individual readers here can certainly form their own opinions regarding who to believe. They can believe a person who ordered torture to be used and is thus vunerable to criminal charges, or they can believe a person who, knowing that torture is illegal and who ordered his subordinates to not participate in the act and is thus not vunerable to criminal charges.

Anything other than a full blown investigation and criminal charges where applicable is not only a waste of time, it's a failure of our governmental leaders to uphold the Constitution they swore to protect and uphold to the best of their ability.

Those who do so should be impeached and charged criminally. Those who cannot be impeached for one reason or another, should be charged with the crimes they committed.

Yo, Buzz.

You have bad eyes.

Next time, read the thread before commenting on what's in it and what's not.