As others have acknowledged here, Iraq and Afghanistan are indeed wars, authorized by Congress. And as was raised by other replies, the AUMF clearly provides the executive (then Bush, now Obama) the power to determine who was responsible for the acts of 9/11, and the lawful authorization to go after them (and those that support them).

May I direct you to the link at my sig for an amplification of why, like LondonLoon, you are incorrect in the above statement.

In any case, the invasion of Iraq was not authorized by the AUMF you note.

'Iran may have had a hand in the 9/11 terror atrocities as well as Khobar Towers, the terrorism in Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, August 1998), Hamas and Hezbollah terror, etc.'

'May have' or 'did'?

Mr. Klein should make distinctions

Steve Klein may have had a hand in the 9/11 terror atrocities as well as Khobar Towers, the terrorism in Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, August 1998), Hamas and Hezbollah terror, etc.'

Steve Klein may also have had a hand in the invasion of Gaza and subsequent wanton slaughter of innocent Palestinian civilians, including many women and children.

He may have.

Realy!

To say this will not be a part of the Obama plan is splitting hairs - all those not covered privately or through the exchange will be covered by the single payer plan for ER treatment. This is the only part of the Obama plan that is already in place.

LOL Friend, you're humpin my leg.

But BO said in his speech indicated that illegals will not be covered - in reality they are - thus the Wilson shout.

They are NOT covered by the Obama plan. Nothing will change for illegals. Nothing. Nada. They will continue to receive emergency health care at ERs just like they have been receiving it for decades. To say that this is part of the Obama Plan is, well, disingenuous - at best.

Good night, Joe. Don't let those Obama bedbugs bite ya.

Please don't tell me that you are one of those people who believe that if something isn't stated as X, then it must be Y.

The administration has consistently said that illegals would not be included in the proposed healthcare bill. That is true.

What you are doing, is saying that if there is no regulation currently on board to police that issue, then the bill actually makes it legal.

That's horseshit and you know it. Most bills are passed with no real enforcement details included but with general guidelines to be used by the administration when it writes the regulations. That's normal and it's no different in this case.

There is nothing in this bill which will change anything regarding how illegals are treated. Illegals would be allowed to purchase insurance but would not be given subsidies to do so. Hell, you guys should be tickled pink with that. That will actually reduce the public spending on their treatment and their insurance carrier would pick up the tab.

Obama said that those people here illegally are not included in his health care plan, not that he would change existing conditions of their treatment in ERs.

By kneejerk blocking of health care reform, Republicans and some Democrats are ensuring that illegals will continue to receive ER treatment. There is no change in that arrangement.

So how does this health care bill do something Obama said it would not do? How does it not do something that he said it would do?

The damned speech was moot on the point of ER treatment of illegals and you just made that up.

It was BO that said the ER treatments would stop with the new legislation - that treatment would be denied.

Really? Damn, I must have missed that part of the speech. Obama actually said that the new legislation would stop ERs from treating illegals?

Where and when?

I've already read the transcript of his speech to Congress and he didn't say it then. Where and when did he say that, Joe?

There is nothing in the proposed bill that authorizes ERs to determine the legality of the sick and withhold care when appropriate.

And you wonder why the GOP is going down the shitter?

I've seen some pretty dispicable things here in my time but this one pretty much goes to the head of the class.

Just for grins, Joe, when do you believe it would be "appropriate" for a hospital to withhold care?

There is a spill in Aisle 3 of the Piccadilly Store. Will a janitor please attend to it with a large mop? It would appear that someone's arse is bleeding profusely.

Thank you.