That's no rebuttal. You're just saying that meds should be a first resort. Nobody is saying real, clinical depression does not exist, nor is anyone saying that meds are evil. But you're going so far as to say that depression is something we always MISTAKE for sadness. That's irresponsible as hell and oversimplistic.

Meds are not a religion. They're a tool. If they're an inappropriate tool they're dangerous. For you they're appropriate. Again: you are not everyone.

And not everyone needs insulin, and if you give insulin to someone who's not diabetic it can kill them. Imagine if you will a doctor who simply prescribes insulin to their patients without diagnosing them first. That's what often goes on with these meds as well.

What we're talking about is irresponsible prescribing of powerful medications. It happens. Not all doctors are irresponsible, and many do make sure meds are in fact what's needed before prescribing them, and that's great. But many just do it because it's easier.

NOBODY IS SAYING MEDS DON'T WORK FOR SOME, INDEED MANY PEOPLE. STOP SOUNDING SO CULTY.

I don't even think you read a single word I wrote. You're attributing to me ignorant BS that others have said to you, and thus you're not worth discussing this with.

I don't disagree with you on anything except that meds are not the be-all and end-all. I'm not saying any of the things you claim I am. I'm saying doctors should be careful about how they prescribe these things, and that all sadness is not depression. Do you disagree with that?

At no point did I say a person shouldn't go to their doctor and have an informed discussion on such things. At no point. You're assuming I'm one of these anti-meds people. You think in black and white and you dash off a generic defensive response.

You seem to need to believe in the meds like they're a religion, and it's a little creepy.

And in no way do I think your friends are qualified to diagnose jackshit.

What drugs would you be thinking my deceased mother took, you twat?

And just see if this doesn't happen.

Because stupid always beats weak.

And nobody's preaching to p_a anyway. Others obviously have and it's made that person very defensive, to the point where he/she can no longer see nuance.

Good for you!

So what? Your anecdote proves only: it worked for you. It proves nothing else.

>>We seem to be in violent agreement that some doctors overprescribe antidepressants. My point is that is not the fault of the drugs, but the fault of the incentive structure in our screwed-up health care system.

Exactly. Thank you.

"Aha! The author takes meds so all is disproven!"

Actually, I think that goes a long way toward saying that the author HAS walked, as p_a has repeated ad nauseaum, a mile in those shoes, and has in fact been to med school. So none of the crap that's been slung really applies, does it?

What you're saying is that someone who thinks they're overused is wrong. So, then, you're saying they should be overused, and that all emotions are in fact pathologies?

Yes, they're trying to keep your meds from you! It's a plot!

Get real. We're saying that some people need them, very badly. But some do not.

This is coming from someone whose father was bipolar, was given the WRONG meds(lithium) and who used them to kill himself stone dead in 1986. So excuse me if I have no patience with your cult. If he'd been given something different, say, maybe he'd still be alive.

One. Size. Does. Not. Fit. All.

You're absolutely right. They obviously are what you need and they work for you. Take the meds.

And once again: you are not everyone.

What Democrats need is to realize that sometimes, you have to make a decision and stop being nice to those who mean you harm, and stop being understanding to those using that "understanding" against you and that you will never win over.

Be a bastard. For the greater good. They need to learn that. (yes, I'm serious)

To paraphrase the great Pete Wisdom: you only fight honorably if you don't care about the pawns. If lives are at stake? You cheat.

That's the best point made. And it was kind of what I've been trying to get at here, though only Buzz seems to have discerned that.

I personally believe that those resources ought to be more available in the system, and I said, earlier, that the system encourages two things: (a) meds first, talk therapy, if at all, dead last, and (b) often the people prescribing them--like the doctor who gave me Paxil when all I needed was help with sleep--are trying to help(otherwise why would they prescribe them?I'm not saying the intent isn't often good, but you know what they say about good intentions), but are not qualified to make those kind of decisions.

Meds are one of many options. They're not always the best option or even the indicated option at all.

Yeah, I almost sympathized with her story till she ended it with accusing the author of causing suicides.

That's a filthy, low, disgusting thing to say and she should apologize for saying it. My life has been scarred by suicide--father, friends. Anyone who throws that around, frankly, loses credibility, and humanity. And no goddamn internet discussion is worth such a disgusting, low statement.

I was wondering how long it would take you. You people disgust me.

Sure, another Great Depression would inspire lovely lovely social change and unicorns and rainbows would rain from Washington's butt.

A shame taht if it happened many of us would not survive it. Oh, and that we have a bunch of right-wing extremists with guns and bombs who might win this time in that kind of upheaval.

But dream that dreamy dream!

It's easy to ignore her, but somehow the media doesn't know how.