By Greenwald's definition, we would have no right to arrest enemy spies here in America during wartime, nor would we have any basis for capturing enemy soldiers who happened to be, say, traveling to an R&R facility behind their own lines ...

Does he really expect intelligent people to take him seriously?

You have been accused of spying during wartime (by an unimpeachable source, whose reward bounty had no influence over the process, we assure you). Therefore, it's off to a "black site" prison with you -- forever -- no hearing, no trial.

What? You're innocent, you say? Sure, that's what they all say.

Remember, the Good Guys never, ever make mistakes.

The scenario you present is a plausible one.

However, it is the routine use of torture that we are discussing. If the 2/3 of Guantanamo detainees that were declared innocent after these types of "enhanced interrogation techniques" weren't anti-American fanatics before their detention, they certainly are now.

total misconception whether or not waterboarding and other methods are torture is open for debate, however the Bush admin never denied using them. The admin wouldn't confirm them because that would give the enemy knowledge they shouldn't have. Furthermore, these techniques work. KSM and Zubaydah were each broken down by waterboarding. They were two of three that had waterboarding used on them. Folks like you live in a theoretical world. You think it is more important to protect the theoretical civil rights of terrorists than to protect Americans.

They fight for no country, wear no uniform, and they plan and carry out illegal ACTS OF WAR. Yet, you want to give them protections afforded soldiers fighting for a country in uniform, attacking other soldiers. That's nonsense. This is one of many misnomers that liberals have about GWOT techniques. I listed them here...

-- mikevolpe

It's not about "theoretical" anything. You seem to still be willing to accept the words of proven liars that have ruined America's credibility, honor and constitutional values -- all because of the actions of 19 guys with boxcutters.

Are you such a bedwetter that you're willing to sacrifice everything that America has stood for just for the false assurance of safety from the most incompetent and mendacious regime in US history? The vast majority of Americans are not.

The fundamental problem plaguing American politics (other than the ignorance of American voters) is our official, institutionalized system of corruption known as "campaign finance."

Most of our politicians are bought by special-interest money before they even take office. Once elected, they aren't in the business of looking after the interests of their constituents -- their main priority is raising money for their next election.

This system of constant money-grubbing is a formula for corruption -- even for politicians with the most noble intentions. There's a name for those refusing to play the game of dealing with lobbyists and special-interest money: Losers.

Unfortunately, ethical purity has seldom been a successful defense against TV attack ads run non-stop by special-interest-funded opponents with ambition untroubled by idealism.

Our system is corrupt by design, and made to favor big-money interests over the interests of the People. No change of politicians can change the system. The system itself must be changed, and the only way that can be done is by Constitutional Amendment.

We must pass a Constitutional Amendment mandating public financing of federal elections, with free media time for qualified candidates. Furthermore, this Amendment must ban the "revolving door" between government and big business -- banning employment by members of Congress by any industry they ever voted on or regulated, as well as banning gifts or perqs of any kind to anybody in government.

Until we pass this type of Amendment, we will continue to see the type of outrages as we see with the telecoms literally buying immunity for their crimes. Until we do, why should we be shocked? The corporations have bought our government. Why shouldn't they do with it as they please?

The most progressive thing we progressives could do is to pass legislation that provides public financing for elections and makes it possible for anyone of any means to be elected and then not have to worry about money as the primary means to get reelected. The money is corrupting the M$M and preventing our government from enacting such important legislation as single payer health care. I fail to understand why we progressives can’t give more importance to publicly financed elections when so many good things could happen.

True campaign-finance reform cannot be done via legislation since the Supreme Court ruled that "money = free speech."

The only way to fix this system of legalized bribery is through a Constitutional Amendment. While difficult, it's the only thing that will save our democracy.

I just called a few minutes ago to express my outrage and a polite young man picked right up.

(202) 225-4131

Rove advising on economic issues is like a having an unemployed neighbor buying boats and motorcycles with his credit card and then bragging about how "prosperous" he is.

Sure, it's easy to give the illusion of prosperity for a while, but compound interest is a bitch when the bill comes due, and the $10 trillion national debt that Bush and Rove have charged-up on the national credit card is a ticking time bomb waiting to devastate the American economy.

Maybe somebody can get Rove to explain how McCain's tax policy differs from Bush's.

The Democratic Party is a political party in name only.

No ideology, no agenda, no strategy, no rhetoric, no party discipline and no leaders.

The only thing they've got going for them is that they're not Republicans, who are certifiably insane.

Who needs Republicans?

Maybe Little Boots will make Barney a Congressman. Other than for the minor ethical/intellectual improvement, nobody would notice.

If this travesty of a bill pases, in a few years we will see a repeat of the Church Committee uncovering horrific abuses of these surveillance powers.

Members of Congress will be shocked, shocked, and wonder "How could this have happened?"