first of all, warsocialism.com is not my website. It's Jay Hanson's website, and neither of us is worthy to shine his shoes. He's forgotten more about this problem than you'll ever know, apparently.

And, if you had read the site carefully, you'd see that Jay proposes some very interesting changes in our society to deal with this problem. It's doom-and-gloom only if you hate change. If you really think our current life in the United States is sustainable. Then it's doom and gloom.

But don't mischaracterize what's going on at Jay's site because you don't get it. He has some interesting ideas. But no-one's listening. Because, as Dick Cheney put it so memorably--and accurately, far as I can tell-- "the American Way of Life is not negotiable."

He may think that. But it's not true. The problem is, we probably won't negotiate. And that's a Bad Thing.

And I don't think I'm any better than the average saloniste...I just disagreed with you, and now I'm having an argument with you...and I disagree with Andrew about all this from time to time..although he does seem to be coming around, bit by bit. Even though he occasionally indulges in the same cornucopian magical thinking that you are indulging today. Hence your star. He's even given me a star, now and then. [g]

forgive me, but I couldn't let your comment about the Laws of Thermodynamics pass.

When the first and second laws are made obsolete by some yet-to-be-made "discovery" you just let me know. Because that's all you're saying. That we might actually figure out how to supervene the laws of thermodynamics. Allow me to suggest that such a possibility is pretty remote. To the point of being just about nonexistent.

But, absolutely, you let me know when we do it. I'll be all ears.

Meantime, I think you'll agree, we have to contend with those laws as they stand. We haven't supervened them yet. Until we do, we better figure out how to live with them. So far, we're not doing a very good job.

By pure, blind luck, James Kunstler's latest Clusterfuck Nation blog goes over exactly the same ground we've been covering here. And he sums things up far more entertainingly, and elegantly, than I ever could.

Read..and weep. Or something.

http://www.kunstler.com/mags_diary21.html

for the record, cdunlea, I'm not interested in arguing with you for the sake of argument. I'd *like* to be able to agree with you. I really would. I was in your shoes for a long time, thinking that somehow we'd figure it out. I'm not at all sure about that anymore. So, the only reason I've spent all this time today writing about this is not to somehow go you one better, but to try to get you to think about this problem differently. You seem like a smart person...maybe you'll change your mind about a few things, and change someone else's mind.

Because, we have a big, fat, ugly problem staring us right in the face, and it's going to take millions of us to "make other arrangements" without violence. One person at a time is the best I can hope for, in my small way.

Sunspot's posts go over this ground quite effectively too, I thought. I'd suggest you read them carefully.

Check out Kunstler's blog, you might find it interesting.

I nearly always use my registered screen name when posting to Salon. But, once in awhile, the subject matter of an article, or post, requires that I post anonymously. I think the anonymous option should remain. I don't see it abused very often in the letters threads I read.

They got us into an totally unnecessary war, and proceeded to lose that war in every conceivable way, mostly through ignorance and sheer incompetence, and make the world far more dangerous thereby...real winners.

They've sold large parts of the Commons off to their business cronies. Real winners.

They've left us wide open to covert nuclear attack, by spending money on everything but securing our borders and focusing our intelligence services to prevent such an attack...real winners..

Shall I go on? In every, single way that counts, the Republicans are the losers. Such profound losers the word almost loses its meaning when used to describe them.

And, I think, at least some of them know it, in their secret hearts. And that is why they are so desperate to throw the label elsewhere.

If Americans woke up, finally, to what the GOP is now, and what it has wrought, the party would likely never hold power in this country again. You think its members don't know that? They do. That's why they consistently hide their real agenda, and do everything they can possibly do to distort news coverage of their perfidy..because if the average American truly understood what the GOP stands for now, and what it has done in service to its extremist agenda, no-one would vote for them.

I suspect even many right-wing nut-cases do not actually understand just how dangerous and destructive their own party has been. They can't afford to understand.

I read your column so I don't have to listen to, or watch, troglodytes like Chris Matthews, and your last quote from him justifies my caution. I'd blow a vessel in my attempt to strangle the fucker through the TV when he says things like that.

What a scum-sucking low-life. No wonder our politics are such a slimy mess. In another time, not long ago, Chris Matthews would have been run out of town on a rail for saying that kind of thing. Now, it's routine.

It's the kind of thing that brings me to the edge of despair. How do we fight this kind of know-nothing, pandering, racist gabble that passes for "journalism" now?

Makes me want to go wash my hands.