If I read that "old people being taxed out of their homes" one more f*&^%ng time I'm going to hit something.

THAT WAS A LIE. IT WAS ALWAYS A LIE. It was cover for the real purpose of Prop. 13. Even the PROPONENTS of Prop. 13 knew it was a lie. But, they were goopers, so that didn't stop them from repeating it ad-nauseum.

Sure, a few people on small fixed incomes living in Newport Beach might have had trouble paying their property taxes in 1978, but that problem COULD HAVE BEEN FIXED EASILY. Without Prop. 13. A simple means-test on a sliding scale, so that those on fixed incomes could afford their houses until they died, could have been instituted easily, and it was part of reform discussions back then, far as I know.

But, the Jarvis and his fellow liars didn't want that to be part of the discussion. They had bigger fish to fry.

See, California had passed laws equalizing school funding, so that there would not be this huge inequality between funding for rich and poor districts, as there was before the laws were passed. Jarvis and his fellow racists intended Prop. 13 as a way to strangle public education funding, since they didn't want their money paying to educate the black and brown people.

And, more generally, Jarvis was Grover Norquist's direct spiritual ancestor. He would have been happy with no taxes at all.

It was that simple, folks. Simple racism destroyed the California budgeting process. Cowardly politicians of both parties finished the process. If all the trolls here would read a little actual history instead of repeating GOP zombie- lies, it'd be a big help. You want to debate Prop. 13, at least debate the actual facts, not zombie-lies.

California is on the brink of disaster because of Prop. 13, coupled with corrupt politics in Sacramento going back decades, and a brainwashed electorate, that, frankly, deserves what's about to happen to it. And if Californians don't do something about it, we are going to reap the whirlwind.

Maybe you don't like taxes. Fine. But let's debate that in the wider context of what those taxes pay for, and let's not cripple our ability to make tax policy by being shackled to the racist, know-nothing attitudes of 30 years ago.

I'm sorry, but you're still using the same infrastructure I use, and you're paying a fraction of the cost that I'm paying FOR THE SAME USE! That's unfair taxation, any way you look at it.

Truth is, a simple, one-page means-test form as part of our state taxes would have taken care of the people who were "being taxed out of their homes." If someone really couldn't afford their property taxes, then there was a simple way to create a sliding scale of payment, based on means, using a simple form. The "we'll lose our homes" thing was always just scare-mongering. Prop. 13 was racist legislation designed to knee-cap poorer school systems. period.

And a way for the GOP to destroy California. which they have now done.

Most home-owners in california who benefit from Proposition 13 just DON'T WANT to pay higher taxes. They would not lose their homes. But how is it fair for one person to pay three times what you pay in property taxes, just because you've owned your home longer than they have and for no other reason?

If you were on the other side of this equation, you'd be screaming bloody murder. I've had dyed-in-wool Orange County goopers tell me the same thing with a smug smile on their faces, as they go on to say "yeah, but I bought my house 30 years ago, so I don't have to worry." Real responsible types.

GOP voters and politicians have destroyed california, just as they've taken a real good swing at destroying our country. Why do we listen to them about ANYTHING anymore?

California REPUBLICANS have a lot to answer for. They put Prop. 13 on the ballot. They rammed through the most radical version of the bill back then.

Plenty of Californians, me included, have known Prop. 13 was an utter disaster for many years. You want to blame someone, blame the California GOP. Were there any justice in this world, the entire lot of them would be put in a big rocket and shot into the Sun.

And, yes, plenty of deluded Reagan dems voted for Prop. 13, and they are to blame as well.

The biggest blame goes to our Legislature and series of governors, none of whom has ever been willing to tell California Voters the truth about what they did to themselves, in the course of being brainwashed by Howard Jarvis's lies.

It's way past time for truthtelling, the governors to the governed. Political cowardice has been widespread and deeply entrenced in Sacramento for many, many years. You stay cowardly for that long, you pay for it, sooner or later.

Prop. 13 should be invalidated, the 2/3 vote requirement for tax bills should be invalidated, and California should start over. Because, at this point, we're going to look a lot like Zimbabwe before too long. Goopers? That what you want? If so, you're a bunch of traitors.

my loathing for Suleman has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that she had the incredible arrogance to have all those kids with no resources, and now we're going to pay the bill, one way or the other.

At least the Duggars, however insane THAT arrangement may seem, have the resources to care for and raise all those kids.

It's a finite world, Kate, and there are only so many resources in it, and the notion of one woman having 14 kids with no obvious way to take care of them is so provocative that I have to say...it's her irresponsible arrogance that frosts my bits. Nothing else.