Well, let's see, our taxes have to pay for the military so yeah, we should get to have a say in it. As for murder, if that guy crossed state lines it might become my problem. The marriage thing has always been weak because:

1) Most of the examples that you give have alternative explainations for why they wouldn't work anyway (if you can get a horse to consent to marriage, you'd have your own sold out act in Vegas I guarantee it!) .

2) You seem to have made stopping gays from getting married more important then healthcare, cost of living issues, and pretty much everything except abortion to the point where your willing to let innocent people suffer. Seems like kind of a high price to pay just to get back at all those uppity sodomites who forgot their place.

3) The "tradition" excuse was used to justify stopping interracial marriage just 40 years ago. And you know what? They were right. It did go against tradition. But our society decided just because something is a tradition, isn't a good enough reason to keep it around. Especially in regards to traditions that harm a minority group. Sound familiar? Slavery was a tradition too, maybe you think we should have kept that one as well. Interracial marriage doesn't challenge the conventional definition between a man and a woman you say? Why don't you hop in the Delorian and head back to Georgia circa 1965 and tell that to the people then. See how that will fly.

4) Say what you want about us "Libs", we aren't trying to change our nation's founding document everytime we don't like something. It isn't just gay marriage, it's everything. Don't like flag burning? Just amend the constitution. Want the ten commandments up in every courtroom in America? No problem, an amendment will take care of that. I may not believe in your religion, but I'm not going to use our nation's founding document as some sort of revenge fantasy just because you don't think like me. And then turning around and claiming to blieve in less government after doing so! So not only are you nosy busybodies, you are also liars as well.

and finally:

5) No matter how appalled at it you may be, you still haven't given one example of how it really is any of your business. When most groups take up a cause, be it gun control, or poverty, or even Darfur, it is usually to either: a) improve the lives of someone and make them better or: b) protect themsleves from some sort of harm. So far, none of you bigots have been able to show how two guys marrying each other either harms you or makes anyone's lives better. All you've shown so far is that you like to tell other people how to live their lives and interfere in their relationships.

I have things I disagree with too, doesn't make it any of my business if other people do them.

As for abortion, if you can tell me when life actually begins it might settle this issue. But of course you would have to prove it. At what point does something that starts out as two cells become a technical person? First trimester? Third? Now you see why this isn't a black and white issue for many of us. I have a hard time buying the idea that something half the size of a grain of rice has the same rights, and responsibiilties, as I do. Even your own holy book only gave out a fine for abortion. This was at a time when kids were stoned to death for disobeying their parents. What was that about God respecting life again?

"FTT: where did I write "stopping gays from getting married is more important than...everything"?"

But that's how it's treated. There is a large swath of this country that only vote based one or two issues. Usually those two.

"Interracial marraige has absolutely nothing to do with same sex marriage."

Oh, but they do. The same excuses about "tradition" were used against it then as they are used now to justify opposition to same sex marriage.

"Amendments to the Constitution have a high hurdle to overcome, so why all the comnplaining?"

Becuase you think it's okay to just treat the constitution like some kind of grocery list you can just add stuff to everytime you don't like something. This is dangerous no matter who is doing it. Conservatives, liberals, republicans, democrats, it doesn't matter. Are we going to go running to it everytime some new fad issue comes along or everytime some politician wants to get re-elected? Because that is how it is being treated now.

As for abortion, I am personally uncomfortable with late term abortion, but I also don't see abortion in general as black and white. This is the problem I have with conservatives, they want to simplify everything and throw the whole concept of nuance out the window. I also don't think building your entire vote around this one issue or gay marraige as being the best way to convince people. I gotta be honest when I say that from the other side it makes you guys look crazy and obsessed.

On a personal note, you have the same name as my grandfather. I'm not sure why that matters but it does seem odd.