Glenn, I'd be interested in a list of legislation introduced by the Democrats that would have changed our current course. It's easy to blame the Reps, but absent a true alternative the Dems are just as culpable. I don't pretend to be truly informed here, though, so if there really has been legislation that would end the war, stop torture, stop rendition, re-institute habeas for all, etc., I'll feel better about the Dems. Heck, I don't even recall hearings into this stuff.

It was an honest question, Glenn. Thanks for the response and the links, it actually does make me fell better :)

Cheers

I've been absolutely aghast at how the "progressive" movement has largely aped some of the worst parts of the conservative movement. Namely, they refuse to recognize and criticize their own, or hold a consistent standard of behavior across idealogical grounds.

We may all agree that the focus of the Obamaniacs is much more benign than McCain or Bush - this is true - but their behaviors are such that they lose any moral high ground.

Olberman is a perfect example. He made his mark by telling truth to power about the Bush administration, but then lost any credibility as more than a partisan hack when he overlooks Obama's misdeeds.

"So an Obama presidency will rid us of the Goldberg's, Kristol's, etc. in this country? Electing him stops them?"

Greenwald :

An election which removes their party from power and powerfully repudiates what they've done removes them and people who think like them from power and humiliates their movement.

Only to be replaced by progressive idealogs with the same manners. Like I said, the shallow thinking Olberman is now our talking head - where is Chomsky? We've seen the Democratic leadership, they are as hypocritical and morally bankrupt as the Republicans they've replaced - they just aren't as evil so it's such a big deal. They do their torturing in private, they don't politicize the justice department or other government agencies, their cronyism is less pronounced and so the government agencies tend to run better than under Republican hands. Look to Kucinich for what real outrage looks like, and you'll notice that he is out of step with the Democratic party. I would call Kucinich a moderate - he isn't sitting in congress naked or self-flagellating to gain attention for his cause - no, he is staying within the well-defined bounds of constitutional proceedure to try to redress the wrongs done on America. That is the working of a moderate, a radical would be shaving his head, interrupting the workings of the house at every opportunity and disrupting government, trying to force people to confront the idea that we have war criminals in the White House. I am not advocating this form of action, I'm just pointing out that the most activist Democrat in congress is, at best, a moderate. The rest are, by and large, conservative in the sense that they do not wish to disturb the status quo. And these do-nothing congresspeople are lauded by a sycophantic chorus of progressive bloggers. I don't count Greenwald among them, but I don't share his optimism that the damage can be undone from within. How can you hope to match the Democratic money machine? I will not criticize further, because at least he is doing something, something he believes will make the country a better place. I find myself agreeing more with Chomsky :

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,583454,00.html

and I don't think the Democrats will willingly change their ways.

Right-on, Glenn. My daughters school was doing a commemoration of George Bush, and I told her teacher that I didn't want she wasn't going to participate because I didn't want her commemorating a war criminal. The teacher got very flustered, and some of the other parents rolled their eyes (including my wife ;) and I was pooh-pooh'ed.

I think people just really don't know what's been going on. I don't hear the regular media much, but my local NPR does very little on torture, illegal detention and lack of habeus.

When I talk about this with my family it comes across as some sort of black helicopter government conspiracy thing. I think people really don't want to know about it, and the news doesn't want to tell them. Their solution will be for Obama to - quietly - discontinue these practices and go back to doing them in secret, like the good old days (except for the few right wing nuts that actually think torture is ok if it's a terra-rist).

Ten years from now the "reality" will be that the US never tortured and never tortures and we're number one. It is amazing how right Orwell was.

What frustrates me endlessly is that we have to apply pressure to our own candidate because he wants to keep torturing, escalating wars, trashing our rights.

WTF. At least Bush stayed on script - throwing money at churches, destroying environmental protections, cutting taxes on the rich, launching wars and trying to privatize social security. The right didn't really have much to criticize.