FOSS isn't just Linux- there's a ton of very high quality applications that run on Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, etc.

And my company (like many, many, small, medium, and large businesses) runs Linux all over the place. File servers, web servers, etc.

And while desktop Linux is still a rare beast (for a variety of reasons), I strongly disagree with your "there's almost NO consumer-usable FOSS on the desktop"

I happen to be running Windows on my laptop (mainly out of laziness), but on this machine, I have, and use regularly:

• Firefox
• OpenOffice (office application)
• Gimp (not quite as good as Photoshop, but pretty darn good)
• mySQL (database)
• FileZilla (FTP client and server)
• TrueCrypt (pro-grade hard drive encryption; better than any closed-source project by far)
• Celestia (incredible 3-D space simulation software; predates the MS offerings; great for fyling around the solar system with the kids)
• winSCP (secure file transfer)
• UltraVNC (for running other computers from mine)
• Cygwin (Unix command-line emulation)
• HeidiSQL (front end to mySQL)
• Task Coach (very good task planner)
• VLC media player
• SpamBayes (spam filter for Outlook- very good)

and that's not exhaustive. Not all of these are of general interest to everyone, but they're tools for doing pretty typical stuff.

Judging the success of free and open source software by only considering the adoption of Linux on the desktop is, simply, not accurate.

"There's no point in worrying about FOSS apps on MS operating systems."

What does that mean?

The commercial equivalents of the FOSS software on my machine costs $1000's of dollars. I downloaded and installed them without so much as whipping out a credit card. And "update and patch maintenance is more expensive not less"? Ha! Firefox has the best auto-update around, and most others are quite good at either auto-updating or letting you know when a new version comes out. I couldn't disagree more with your statements.

As for Linux- you mentioned Ubuntu earlier. I have downloaded and installed Ubuntu on several laptops with very little time invested. Lots of people know how to burn a CD & restart a computer with said CD in the drive- that's about all Ubuntu requires. I used to have time to futz with Linux, but with four young kids and a demanding job, I'm way past that. And once Ubuntu is running, it's insanely easy to install software using Synaptic. Ubuntu, which is based on a Linux flavor called Debian, is fundamentally based on easy addition/removal of software packages.

I won't even get into the freedom part of Free software. You know, where you have the freedom to use, modify, and learn from the software as you wish.

CvR is intent on spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty & doubt) about Free and Open Source software for some reason. It's fine if you don't want to use FOSS software yourself; it's a free country; but get your facts straight!

"Free software" is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of "free" as in "free speech," not as in "free beer."

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Where to find FOSS:

http://www.ohloh.net/

http://sourceforge.net/

http://freshmeat.net/browse/18/

Too good to get elected president, and probably too good to be a good president.

But a good man nonetheless.

I still blame Florida Naderites, myself.

Come on already.

I never claimed Linux on the desktop was easy enough for Grandma (though I know a couple who do use Linux- it's the OS of their cell phone), I just said it wasn't *that* hard to do for zero cost. And even if you pay $20 or whatever for a CD, Linux is still Free in the "free speech" sense.

FOSS on Windows? As mentioned, I use it to browse the internet Firefox), handle my personal email (Thunderbird), keep my resume current (OpenOffice), help my kids learn about space (Celestia), and so forth. No chromodynamics involved (though if there was any, I'd probably use Scilab or Octave for that). I use these programs because they are free (as in beer), Free (as in speech), and superior to their closed-source counterparts. It doesn't make sense for me to not use them, even on Windows, a closed source operating system (especially as it's really easy to transfer my stuff to the same programs on Linux).

In short, I continue to summarily reject your arguments that "The F as in FREE exists for government large scale efforts that have the resources" (false; try most Fortune 500 companies), "there's almost NO consumer-usable FOSS on the desktop" (false; start with Firefox), "There's no point in worrying about FOSS apps on MS operating systems" (false; there's better software at a better price that is just as easy to install, maintain, and use as any closed source software), "But in the Linux space there aren't really many consumer-usable FOSS apps either" (only true if you narrowly define 'consumer' as 'someone who isn't comfortable using anything other than Windows'), and so forth.

Your argument about price differentials in other markets makes sense, but is sometimes offset by cultural sensitivities about being beholden to a US company (e.g. Germany has a lot more Linux penetration than the US).

In sum, bite me. :)

If so, ship those pellets up here to New England and me and my pellet stove would be glad to get rid of them for you.