The Christians who post here seem to believe that there is religious freedom in the U.S. It doesn't exist. What we have is limited religious tolerance - now, that's not altogether a bad thing. No one is killing us atheists, no one is putting us in camps, but it's not religious freedom either. Religion is on the money (yes, that's offensive), it's in the Pledge (even more offensive), it's in our taxes (the property tax exemption for churches forces secular Americans to sudsidize police and fire protection and other services for churches - that's highly offensive), etc.

I am 60 years old, and I've been waiting my entire life for the religious freedom we were promised. Even liberal Christians don't realy much care about the religious freedom issues of atheists. Where our interests coincide - opposition to prayer in schools or intelligent design, for examples - liberal Christians are excellent allies. But liberal Christians are no more willing to give up their subsidies than the religious right.

I was raised as a pacifist, so, when I registered for the draft in 1965, I tried to register as a conscientious objector, but that can only be done after one is drafted. After college, I was drafted, but my conscientious objector was denied. There was no provision in the law for CO status not based on religion. For years, I has worked with Quakers on anti-war and other issues, but they were not interested in supporting my case, because it might jeopardize their status. So, while my Quaker friends were peforming 'alternative service' - honorable activities to be sure - I spent my time in maximum security prison being beaten and raped by the allegedly Christian gentlemen of the Aryan Brotherhood. This was the kind of thing that stays with you. I have worn dentures for 38 years, because they kicked my teeth out, I have 14 scars from stab wounds and 26 little scars from cigarette burns. These are my daily reminders of religious freedom in America. Now, in fairness, the Supremem Court eventually got it right in Griffiths vs U.S., but it came to late for me.

So, now, at age 60, I have given up on religious freedom in America. I am successful, I have a great life, I have a spectacular wife and my life could really not be too much better. BUT, I know, as certain as I know my name is Darrell, that, if push came to shove, you would throw us under the bus in a heartbeat.

Where is this so called subculture? Who comprises it? What evidence do you have that there is such a thing? It's perfectly fine for you to post it, but it's actually quite meaningless without some reference to its actual existence. I have two graduate degrees, and, while it seemed useful to get them at the time, they have no direct bearing on anything I've done for the last 20 years. They did help me achieve the mental discipline that has been key to my success during that time. I've lived all over the country, but I've never experienced this subculture you reference.

I'm a hard atheist, but I've spent my entire life in the Democratic Party trying to work with Christians. On all those issues where we have common ground, no problem, but Christians are totally uninterested in the issues of atheists. You would, indeed, throw us under the bus before you would stand up for us. So, if you hate us that much, maybe we should just stay home in the next election. Then, you couldn't claim that we lost the election by criticizing Christians. It would be on your own head.

Before I forget, atheist or not, I quite enjoyed the book excerpt. It was well written, very nuanced, very personal. Like others, I want to know what started her on this path, what changed in her life that started her and ,then, what changed after. I will probably read the book.

Did you miss the part about common ground? Jobs, health care, opposition to war, etc. Yeah, that part was good. But, I also spent a lot of time in the basement of my grandfather's church. Yes, the congregants talked a lot about feeding the hungry, helping the sick and resolving family conflicts, but they also talked a lot about how Catholics were not really Christians, how atheists were not really American citizens and shouldn't be here, and how black people were not quite the same as whites. Also, I volunteered for 3 hours every Thursday for two years at a local church that had a great meals and food distribution program. One day, a woman I had known for the entire two years asked me what my religion was. I told her that I preferred not to discuss such things, but she pressed me, and I told her I was an atheist. Three weeks later, I was requested to leave the program in writing. "Your continued Godless presence is inimical to the goals of this ministry". Not something I'll forget.

Raised atheist, but me too.

OTOH, I don't see Dayenu as a friend at all. In my experience, he is a fascist supporter of ethnic cleansing, mass torture and mass murder who knows pathetically little of the actual history of the thing he claims to support.

Kudos. I do enjoy the passionate ones.

I apologize for my post regarding Dayenu. It was ill advised and irresponsible. He and I have done battle, but there has to be a better way. Whatever problems i have with Israel these days, the Israelis do have a way. You, me , Dayenu, Alex and others get together on Sunday night, have some beers, scream, yell, argue, get red in the face, bang on the table, spread spittle over everything in sight, threaten each other with grievous bodily harm, and, then, at the end of the night, we shake hands, we hug and we agree to do it again next Sunday. We are what we are.