...that people who made reckless decisions and took on mortgages they couldn't afford are now being bailed out, I offer the following:

(And I offer this as someone with money in the bank, no house, and zero exposure to this crisis personally--that is, as someone who was very, very careful, is in no trouble whatsoever, and who has every reason to resent people who weren't careful and are now being bailed out:)

The past thirty years have been spent systematically ensuring that the way to get rich is NYTHING BUT hard work and responsibility. Official rhetoric to the contrary, riches have been almost impossible to obtain by working hard, saving your money and being careful. People who made big speculative investments, pointless moving-around of money, vapourware humbug and other unproductive swindles made all the money. People who taught school, changed bedpans, fixed leaky roofs and drove taxis were left scrambling from paycheck to paycheck.

Americans were told at every turn that if they didn't put a bunch of money into the stock market, they would never be able to retire. Worse, all of the "safe" growth (i.e. the 2% per year you could reasonably expect by investing in an index fund) would be siphoned away by financial professionals through their fees. The system is designed by financial professionals to ensure that they will get all the guaranteed money and then, if there's anything left over, you'll get yours--if you're lucky. The only way to see any growth at all was to pursue "aggressive growth" funds where you *could* make 10% per annum but you could lose a lot more. Being safe and responsible was by definition a losing battle.

So can you really blame people, after every possibility to make an honest buck was shut off, and after opportunity after opportunity to game the system and get filthy rich was exploited by others (who then used their massive riches to further screw people who played it safe)--can you really blame them for jumping on what looked like the one opportunity to get ahead for little people like them?

"the way to get rich is NYTHING BUT hard work..."

That should read ANYTHING BUT--and not "NOTHING BUT" as some people might misread.

"It took a village to make all this happen."

It takes a village to destroy the village in order to save it.

that this is one of the most interesting discussion threads I've seen in a long time.

I was gonna weigh in and say, "Go to grad school, don't do the military." That's having done the former and not the latter.

But now I'm not so sure. Maybe the diminishing returns of more school (since you've already done a lot of school) mean that a year or two in the armed forces would do you good.

Certainly, at the very least, doing some time in the military will give you the moral authority to have opinions about stuff among people who otherwise wouldn't take you seriously. Dunno if that's important to you or not but there it is.

Let's get this out of the way right now: If the right wing is allowed to frame this all in terms of how long it takes to get the Dow back to where it was, and to foster the notion that this is realistic within a few years (let alone a few months) then on that basis the prospects are probably not good.

In 1929 the Dow peaked at about 375 points before plunging by mid-1932 to about 50.

Granted, that plunge all happened under Hoover, with a modest recovery underway by mid-1933.

But it still took until 1954 to return to its 1929 peak--i.e. twenty-five years. So anybody who's expecting (or setting up the expectation of) Obama to bring back the 14,000 Dow in his first four years is mismanaging expectations.

"A significant personality deficit, a lack of empathy, a lack of respect for others and for themselves must make dating in a time of economic downturn difficult. But then who cares, really?

"It's a tough time for assholes."

Amen, brother/sister.

Hillary would have done it better.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No, I'm just yanking your chain. What's the opposite of buyer's remorse?