i just wrote a long reply and since im using a blackberry it erased the whole thing with an errant keystroke. god i hate this thing. when i get done being pissed ill try to do it again. even caps and punctuation are hard with these things.

the main point was that things are worse now than they`ve ever been. obama seems to be ready to go along with obvious idiocy. the congress is a joke. but our system makes it easier to work within the 2 party duopoly than to start a new party. if we get all progressives in the party and take it over, the corporate media would have to cover it. 3rd parties they easily ignore.

but there are so many factors it would take a long healthy debate. the crux of the biscuit is whether we can get even the guys like adnoto, whose energy we need, to go along if we all decide to work within the duopoly. i know id be willing to go wit a 3rd party if that was the majority opinion. (we`d need to set up a progressive convention of sorts to decide) but all this fighting i see here at UT is pretty indicative of a fractured progressive movement. this blog could be the beginning of a real progressive movement. sorry this is so hard to read but im typing on a keyboard for elves. i have lots to say on this and will when i get a chance.

I started out more pessimistic about Obama than most of my friends and family--any guy who promises from the giddyup to work with Big Pharma and Insurance to fix healthcare is clearly a team player for status quo.

On the other hand, i have some sources in Justice who`ve had me trusting that the bad apples left by Rove and Cheney` in positions where they would be systemically hard to get rid of and at the same time highly influential due to their varipus positions within the beaureacracy of Justice, were causing most of the seeming sameness between Bush and Obama`s Justice positions.

I now am officially on board with you and Glenn that Obama`s DoJ is a corrupt extension of the warped status quo. Holder has done nothing to change the sense of entitlement enjoyed by the whloe DC/Ny media/govt country club.

Time to decide; either we take over the Democratic Party or start finally a seriously viable 3rd party attack. But that will mean convincing Adnoto and the Libertarian contingent, who are well represented here at UT, to join us, as we,ll need all the people disgusted with this clustetfuck of a govt to work on the same plan to have any hope of turning things around. Which means getting everybody to take that first step of agreeing to let the outcome of the debate determine which approach to take. But obviously we cant keep letting ourselves call each other idiots. We have way more in common than we do disagreements, though thats hard to see when you read the slugfests of insults that debates on the subject usually devolve into here. But that just shows the depth of feeling so many here have on these issues.

Right now i lean toward Glenn and those who think it would be easier to comandeer one of the two existing parties, but i`ll save my reasons for the actual debate-assuming adnoto and others will come back and join it. But i`m totally willing to have my mind changed. Either way, the most important thing. if we want to have any hope of getting our country back from the Oligarchs, is to agree ahaed of time to work together, and whichever approach we take, we will need to agree to let go of any preconceptions and let the debate ensue without screaming insults.

TRULY BELIEVE WE DONT HAVE THE LUXURY OF SETTLING FOR THE STATUS QUO. We need to choose a battle plan and take this country away from the slimeballs who now have made the Beltway their own private juvenile clique.

Glenn Greenwald is far and away the best political writer working today. And his comments section hs some of the brightest minds around sharing ideas. I,m convinced a genuine movement could grow from the discussions here, but it will require a movement away from sportbitching toward actual debate. I dont comment much lately but the more i read i realize there`s far more agreement than disagreement, but somehow even folks who would probably agree on 90% of their worldview will focus on the other 10 and hurl insults until the proverbial fists fly.

We have to take our govt away from the sellouts. The 1st decision we need to make is whether a 3rd party is the easiest way, or taking over the Dems with a stealth campaign from within. Do adnoto and herur and sinnard care more about remaining loyal to their pet theories, or genuinely taking the country back. .

For my part, if you can convince me a 3rd party would work better, i`ll be there 100%. If we can convince you its easier to take over the dems, could you see yourself being able to put your considerable strength behind that? We need each other to have prayer in hell

Or is it really just more fun to sportbitch online?