Okay, the letters by MerelyMortalMale have about made me lose my lunch...listen f****tard, the reason why rape is always, ultimately, the fault of the perpetrator is that YOU have control over your penis! If a guy gets turned on by someone in provocative clothes, it does NOT naturally follow that it's her fault if she gets raped. Because ultimately, the MALE involved made the decision to have sex with said female against her will. No means no...it means stop what you are doing, even if your penis wants to continue what it is doing! "No" does not mean the woman is being "coy" and "expecting the man to be the initiator." No does not mean yes, or even maybe. Likewise, if a woman is unable to say "yes" or "no" because she is too intoxicated, you need to back off.

Now, if you're too drunk to know what you want but still in control over what you do, and you consent to something that you wish you hadn't when you wake up the next morning, that's not rape. That's a bad decision. But, what is being depicted in the video that started this thread is clearly not that. The girl is crying...she is clearly expressing her unwillingness and the guys don't care. Would it have been smarter for her to have stayed sober enough to realize getting into a car with strangers might be a bad idea. YES! But, that doesn't make her responsible for their crime.

Yes, there are things you can do that can make you more or less vulnerable to something bad happening. But ultimately, guys control their penises. If they decide to stick them somewhere they are clearly not wanted, that's rape. And a verbal indication for you to stop overrides any other factors, like style of dress or leaving a party with you, that might have led you to believe you were going to get some.

Look, dude, no one's trying to "thwart" your sexual energy. All we ask is that you direct it toward another consenting adult. Why is that so hard for you guys to understand? Is it because you can't find another consenting adult? That's not our problem! Is it that "consent" turns you off? Consider therapy! Seriously, your comments illustrate the idea that this is more about power and "taking" something from someone without consent than it is about appreciating a woman's body.

Oh, and your argument about women talking about guys is pretty bogus...first of all, I have yet to see a women illustrate such a discussion about a man with a photograph of his junk taken without his consent. Secondly, guys also gossip about girls, quite frequently. Gossiping is different that taking a picture.

To conclude, most women consider it rude for you to make an effort to look up their skirt. It goes beyond rude, and probably should have some legal ramifications, to take a photo of a woman's private parts as a souvenir without consent and show it to all your buddies, put it out on the internet, etc-unless you have the subject's consent to do so.

As far as clothing goes-if you have to make an effort to see it by pretending to tie your shoes, using special camera angles, etc, than the woman probably didn't dress with the intention of showing it to you. If you don't have to make an effort to see it, obviously she is okay with you looking...but staring is creepy, period. And taking a picture is about 100 times creepier.