Would that be the same Lincoln who suspended habeas corpus and said the following?

I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people ... I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

and

If I could free all the slaves and preserve the Union I would do that. If I could free none of the slaves and preserve the Union I would do that. If I could free some slaves and leave others is place and save the Union, I would do that also.

Sometimes Glenn doesn't deign to comment on the purposeful obtuseness of those attempting to legitimize or defend the sadistic and morally repellant practice of torture by offering statistically irrelevant hypothetical factual abstractions and misapplying Bentham to the indefensible. That you attempted to cloak your "defense" in faux philosophical pendantry without admitting the factual unreality buttressing your "arguments" amounted to little more than commonplace vapid inanity.

RRHeard: yet another one who didn't get it. Have a banana, RR. It's on me.

My, my.

There is a contention, I believe, in some of the more rarefied philosophical circles that runs like this: if someone in history has ever advocated a compromised or weakened version of what we as progressives believe today, or has ever acted in their life contrary to their highest ideals, that person's views are henceforth to be indiscriminately disregarded...This a contention I respectfully disagree with.

Me too. I think Lincoln was the 2nd greatest president after FDR. I was just trying to undermine your view of Lincoln's religious adherence to principle, which I interpreted as a backhanded way of saying rules should never have exceptions.

Glenn Greenwald agrees with me

Starting....NOW

The difference is there isn't much to DISagree with there. I, on the other hand, provided many targets for anyone who wanted to take a shot.

BTW: I noticed Glenn commented recently. But, maddeningly, he left my petard unhoist.

In point of fact, that very philosophical supremacism, if you will, drove me out of formal study of philosophy.

Vacating the kitchen is a wise move for those who can't take the heat.

I admire how much Lincoln, who really knew lawlessness, respected the law, and think his statements an eloquent counterweight to the idea that we can cavalierly disrespect it for petty political ends

You mean cavalier and petty ends like saving the lives of 15 million people? How small-minded of me.

I was wondering - is there some religious significance to this "one exception to torture" idea? Like, because Jesus died for us on the Cross, therefore torture was, at least in that one instance, justified? I hadn't heard that before, and can see why to a sincere Christian it would matter. I don't roll with those homies myself. I'm just guessin'.

Yeah me either. I'm a hard core atheist. Check my letters to see some other threads that I hijacked to troll on and on endlessly about the baselessness of theism.

Actually, those arguments bear a strikingly close resemblance to the ones I've been having around here...

Neither country was a threat to America and it is expressly forbidden for one country to attack another except for reasons of self defence.

Dude, you've really gone off the rails today. Now don't misunderstand me, I was strongly anti-Iraq War before the war started. But not because I am a pacifist. Rather it was because Bush had obviously failed to make his case.

But Afghanistan? I'm not defending Bush's strategy and tactics but the Taliban are about as evil a bunch of assholes as you will find AND they were protecting al-Qaeda for real. Going to war in Afghanistan was justified.

Letting Osama bin Laden get away at Tora Bora was indefensible. I still don't know why John Kerry didn't make more out of that.

his stock cliché illustrating perfectly the vapid smugness that is the inevitable fruit

Are you calling me a fat hand-wringing faggot? How typical!

Dude or dudette: when you are reduced to attacking someone, whom everyone else is attacking for being too philosophical and imaginative, for lack of originality and use of a common expression, that's right about the time you may as well just hang a big sign around your neck that says, "FAIL. I got nothing at all. Zip."

what could a Sheik find under his bed.

A moral absolutist who would sacrifice 15 million people in order to preserve the rights of their killer?

Fool is an incredibly apt moniker I might add and we don't suffer them lightly here

lol

I never stop getting a kick out out of comments like that.

This fool has a flair for the dramatic!

If only. As Ondelette just reaffirmed, he would be willing to do exactly that. That's what makes him a true monster. Because NO ONE is more moral than Ondelette! He's a stickler.

As ever, you speak best for yourself.

In other words: "No, YOU are!" That is truly fresh and original.

Prior to my dismissal of your incredibly hackneyed turn-of-phrase came a somewhat substantive post that you've conveniently not addressed.

Don't flatter yourself. I just missed it. I'll go hunt it down and come back and pwn you in a bit. You might want to break out the bananas in the meantime.