Yes, L.W.M., we have to win elections here first. We also have to secure a media environment in which Noam Chomsky, Col. P. Lang, Juan Cole, Glenn Greenwald, Dennis Kucinich, Tom Englehardt and many others are actually allowed to speak, and in which people are encouraged to listen. -- William Timberman

Since this is already the case today, I have to assume you mean forcing people against their will, to listen. That's not the thought of a romantic, it's the thought of a totalitarian.

These polls are meaningless. Why? Because it doesn't really matter what any attitudes are, or by how many they are held. It's irrelevant. What matters is what actually happens in real life.

Who does the bombing, shooting, rioting, burning of cars, threatening of lives, stoning of women, advocating genocide of a nation? Methodists? Episcopalians? Jehovah's Witnesses?

This is what I find so very striking and interesting, and was really one of the principal points of the post -- the very same people who advocate American bombings and invasions and shootings in other countries then turn around and make statements premised on the notion that only Muslims, but not Americans, do such things. --Glenn

Did I say Americans? No. I said Methodists.

Of course Americans bomb and shoot, at least when it's politically acceptable. Clinton was particularly good at bombing in fact. Interestingly enough, Bush'41 and Clinton bombed and shot in DEFENSE of Muslims. For that matter, quite a few liberals are proud that we bomb and shoot in Afghanistan.

The first question you have to ask is whether the Americans would be bombing and shooting if 9/11 hadn't happened. I don't think so.

The next question you have to ask is why are the Muslims primarily bombing and shooting each other these days. The reality is that we don't bomb and shoot anymore until bombed or shot at first.

And lastly it is we as a nation that bombed and shot. It was a Democrat Senate that passed the Authorizations, and it is a Democrat Congress that keeps us there while we hope for a peaceful resolution that doesn't involve a white flag on our part.

Meanwhile, perhaps you can point out the last American riot over a cartoon, stoning of a woman, or carburnings as sport? Can you find us a religious civil war in the good old US of A? Are there any American suicide bombers lying about? No? Well, I'd say there is quite a difference between Muslims and Americans after all. Besides the awkward comparison of a Religion and a country, that is.

and failed to override that veto because virtually no Republican members of congress would vote to override in favour of a legally compelled withdrawal?

Not my problem. It's still a Dem Congress. And we're still there.

Also it is a "Democratic" Congress, not a "Democrat Congress" - shall we stoop to "RepubliCON party" or other childish epithets?

This is the second most important thing on your agenda? What is the matter with Democrat? "Nancy Pelosi is a Democrat", where in there is an insult of any kind? Get a grip.

No, there are few American suicide bombers.

Right. What's the ratio to Muslim bombers? 1:100, 1:1000, 1:10,000?

In any case, it is a bizarre distinction to rest your feelings of moral superiority. "Yes, we Christians blow people up, but we don't kill ourselves while we do it, so there, dirty Muslims!"

I'm pretty sure I didn't distinguish between suicide and homocide bombers, though you have to admit we don't have a religious civil war currently.

how much do you want to bet I can't dig up quotes from the Falwell/Robertson crowd that show they believe they are in just such a war against atheists, humanists and secularists?

LOL. Are they bombing and shooting atheists in the wilds of the Bible Belt? However much they might like to string up the ACLU, they don't, and therin lies a mighty distinction.

To this day, it is easier to get elected to high office as an open homosexual than it is as an atheist.

Mark Foley would disagree with that strenuously.

There's a reason the left occasionally uses the phrase the "American Taliban" because that's what these people are.

Hmmm. I think that if they were the real Taliban you would have been tracked down and beheaded by now. No, you are a prototypical liberal secure in the knowledge that your rights are protected and no harm will come. I think though, that if you were confronted with the real Taliban face to face, you'd be wearing a burka after cleaning yourself up.

Thanks, I'm off to the club for 18.

that the factions at war would figure out, less violence equals fewer Americans. But I guess Muslims just aren't that smart.

Damned Americans, you'd think they would have chucked national pride by now. But no, their stubborn refusal to capitulate is causing all sorts of problems for the rest of us. Drat.

I almost feel sorry for you folks, but I'm reminded of the second(I believe) rule of holes: When your opponent is digging himself into one don't interrupt. Heh.