Shawn, in case you didn't already know, is one of Salon's finest trolls, and any argument with him doesn't get anywhere.

I also live in Asia (assuming you are, as your username suggests, in Korea) and agree with your post on the absurd application of moral-relativistic standards when discussing science. American education just operates in a different paradigm when it comes to science. Students are encouraged to categorically accept whatever they are taught rather than to question, understand or examine scientific concepts. Blindly accepting what they are taught lets students accept what others are taught and discuss feelings rather than trying to distinguish between knowledge and belief.

All of this begins in grade school. Take for example the comparison between the AP system and the IB system, which is the prevailing standard for top-notch secondary school curriculum in Europe and international schools elsewhere. In IB science classes, students need to design their own experiments and test a specific concept. They write exams graded by actual examiners where they have to explain theories and apply them to hypothetical situations. In AP, students are evaluated solely on a final, multiple-choice, standardized exam.

Until schools change the way they teach science and emphasize scientific reasoning and the methods in acquiring scientific knowledge, people will continue to argue that teaching creationism is valid. This is why I think the LW really needs to get to the bottom of what his friend thinks is science and how it should be taught. Otherwise people will continue to try to convince him that he needs to the myth of creationism is "another legitimate point of view".

"Let's talk quietly and get this down to the facts, huh?" -Biff Loman, Death of a Salesman

I agree with some of the other commenters here: getting angry doesn't get you anywhere. Leave aside the child abuse side issue. It sounds like your friend is having some struggles with his own faith and may eventually come to his own conclusion. You can facilitate in convincing him with rational arguments, laying out step by step all the points against creationism.

However, you will probably get angry and frustrated if you talk to him about this solely on religious and political terms. Ultimately, the fact remains that he is asked to teach in a science class. Perhaps you can ask him what he thinks science it, and what the principles of science are (inductive reasoning based on empirical observations, validation of theories through systematic experimentation, etc). Then ask him if creationism fits into these principles. If he says yes, ask him to lay out all his arguments point by point, and if he attempts to do so, calmly point out the irrationality of them. My guess is he will hesitate to try it anyway since you mentioned your friend is having doubts about God himself.

In the end, maybe you can't entirely convince himself that creationism is wrong (I think ultimately he needs to figure that out on his own). But you can convince him that teaching creationism does not follow the principles of teaching science and that creationism would fit better in a theology or philosophy class.

OT, but I really like what Allie_ said:

Forcing oneself to believe a lie that one knows to be a lie is a cancer that rots the soul all through.

I think Rob Mac was being sarcastic. Wasn't he?

clears throat. peakdavid. Paul Hellyer's views are often considered "fringe" ideas. For example, he believes "The United States military are preparing weapons which could be used against the aliens".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer

http://video.msn.com/

?mkt=en-us&vid=73f6c962-ac45-47df-ae8c-7e1a15a4970f&from=copy

Red star for walter_map!

The LW did not mention how old his children are. Of course they need to know eventually but I think it's rather hard to explain if they are too young.

Exactly. Notice how Laurel jumped to the conclusion that the adoptive parents either:

a)want exotic looking children, or

b)want racially "pure" children (Russian).

More revealing about Laurel's obsession with race than anything else. And btw Laurel, I defended international adoption. I am neither an adopted child nor an adopter. I have volunteered at a Chinese orphanage before, and no, they do not exploit foreigners who want to adopt Chinese children, nor do they exploit locals who have baby girls.