I also saw sullivans' piece that he included your oped in.

I was wondering what planet he lived on after making such a statement..

Sorry, GW can quote all the good intentions or "necessary" tools he says he needs to combat terrorism--but the fact is-he's been wreckless, irresponsible as hell, lying, manipulating,narcisstic, and egotistic, and selfish to make the powere grab he ahs for his own EO at the expense of core civil liberties..I don't even know if A is a naturalized citizen here or not--but I certainly take exception to someone who has not grown up in the US--to be able think he is able to speak for millions of citizens here in the US how dearly they hold on to their Constitution and Bill of Rights. Had seen one flippant comment by A. comparing torture and wireless eavesdropping-saying torture was worse and re: eavesdropping (to paraphrase) "what's the big deal?".

The Big Deal is that in our hx. we've had many corrupt men like Hoover and Nixon who have tried to use their place in office as a means to their own fanatical ends..I believe GW and Cheney have all of the same psychological manifestations in place. In a few short years when we all realize how crazy they really are--it's going to make many Dems like Pelosi/Rockefeller look doubly bad-for their own corrupt inability to try to keep this hidden and not provide oversight.

How many cases have actually been tried-and let go-by courts who have deemed what the EO done as illegal?

How many have been convicted?

The justification is not there to continue any of GW's maniacal ideas-and America has lost it's conscience by allowing

them to continue..

Somehow I don't think Americans are going to put up with it much longer.

I know I'm not.

Watching C Span now.

Dodd-Feingold amend just failed 32-66.

Specter now speaking and vote to be taken on Bingamen Amend.

No worries..

Be thankful for what you get-even when it's not what you want..

somehow this FISA vote may be a blessing in disguise and point of future ref. for Dems involved in the Congressional pardon-which is a violation of separation of powers to encroach on the judicial branch.

I can't imagine the courts will be too amenable to giving the House or the Prez the benefit of the doubt after they've been stepped on this way-not to mention rule of law..

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ACLU_will_challenge_FISA_update_in_0709.html

ACLU & EFF will pursue legal action..

Donating $ raised- to them, would be a good idea.

I know how terribly HARD it must have for you to write this post.

After all-you've been SO terribly unbiased in your opinion during the primary season between O and HRC.

I applaud Hillary for voting against FISA.

I'm extremely disappointed in O's vote.

But do you really Joan, I mean REALLY think HRC would have voted no had she been the nominee?

Seriously?

You mean after her IWR vote and not the Levin Amend.--not to mention the Kyl-Leiberman and cluster bomb vote..she would not have voted no if the Dem nominee for political expediency like O did?

Careful, careful Joan...your sanctimonious HRC roots, O antipathies are showing a bit..