I meant Nazis and Marxist instead of Nazis/Marxist-meaning after the cold war the govt. recruited many of the high-level operatives that had served under Hitler-engineers,scientists,..From Russia-we also employed Russian Jews as spies-probably when Russia and Hitler were allies.

I'd just read about it last week on some obscure sites.

I must confess, I am confused about the definitions:

marxism,communism,fascism,capitalism...

went back and read the defs again-now I think I know why I'm confused-though I think I have it straight now.

Marxism was meant to be a way to end class struggle-with the poor gaining ground with the rich-by means of production-since this is the politics of all societies. There are still "proles"

who have a higher role in that production model.

The idea was used by the Bolsheviks in the Russian Civil War-which then became the Communist Part-back then "war communism" to where all of the economic policy ($$$) went to war effort, while the economy suffered.

But then the marxism which became communism served to remove morality from the masses (a few were the decision-makers on behalf of the many).

The end result of marxism was meant to be capitalism-an equitable distributon. Or a chance for ownership through a free-market society.

again, I see why I'm confused.

NONE of these theories of a perfect system has panned out to be what they say they are.

I don't think we could ever say we were a marxist country-because when our country originated-it had already gone through the war(with UK)to set itself up as capitalistic. So we could not ever digress-we'd already achieved the end result of marxism. But then marxism had become communism...common ownership of everything. But the communistic idea of ownership for all-got hijacked to mean ownership by the govt.-guess any perfect idea of spreading the wealth and ownership for all-eventually does get hijacked by those who think they are superior to others to make decisions. This is what fascism is-where 1 class is superior to another.Even in a capitalistic society like ours-we can have fascism based on race,creed, or religion....

As I've said-it's all confusing-because I see by definition the meaning---but also how it's panned out in history. so while the theories all start out differing-and perhaps with good intentions)--they all get corrupted in the end by those who think they have rights by pedigree,race,wealth...to make the decisons for the masses-----which usually always leads to corruption and moral failings of a society.

and I don't understand the need for intellectual debate about whether Marxism/fascism is a left or right philosophy-going back to the 60s.

Many Nazis/Marxist were gainfully employed after the war in our govt. some were snuck in through South America. They could not do it on thier own without help from corporate $$to get them in in the first place.

I just don't see this angle of the debate advancing anything.

Look at the past 7 years.

Who has stood the most to gain as a result of wars?

THAT's where you look-along with all of the govt contracts---from lobby $$,to ties with politicos, to ties to parties.....

This erosion of the Constitution did not just happen in 7 years-it's taken much longer than that.

I agree with Naomi Klein, that you can take it to the Prescott Bush days-who helped the Nazis. You can look at Bush family ties-both oversees and capitalist,family, oil ties in Texas/US.

I think much of the erosion has been done in the form of Executive Orders-laws passed,wars waged. It's been a steady progression of getting the US closer to the Caspian(oil) area over 25 years.

LBJ saw the profit in war-and the Gulf of Tonkin idea was born and it's been going strong ever since.

So do I think it's coincidence that GW just "SAT" for 7 min after being told of a terrorist strike? Do I think it's coincidence that the picture of all the hijackers were up on the TVs in a mere hour of the bombings? Do I think it's coincidence that Giuliani had been warning of bioterrorist attacks in NY just a week before they happened? Do I think it's coincidence that Giuliani just happened to be in the same neighborhood as 3 of the Pakistani men arrested for the London bombing-and then the next day-15 mins. away from the London Tubes bombing? Do I think it's coincidence that the BBC was reporting that WTC 7 had come down 15 mins. before it actually happened-and could be seen in the backgound while the broadcast said differently?

Gulf of Tonkin indeed.

Follow the money-then you find the guilty parties.